Yes, quite rightly if they shared the same exhibit. But what if there were two separate exhibits in different parts of the zoo? Surely that would cause no issue?
ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Whipsnade Zoo 2014 #1
- Thread starter BongoHardwood
- Start date
Yes, quite rightly if they shared the same exhibit. But what if there were two separate exhibits in different parts of the zoo? Surely that would cause no issue?
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
You do get the feeling that this rule is not being looked at sensibly. The issue of hybridisation is in the past, and happened in India in the 1970s, if not earlier. Separate facilities for lion subspecies are no more likely to lead to hybrids than is the case for tigers: Howletts keeps three taxa of the latter without obvious problems!
Whipsnade's African Lions are not going anywhere, figuratively speaking. They were brought in ten years ago a) to have lions on show and b) to highlight ZSL's conservation work with carnivores in Tanzania (which could be done with Hunting Dogs). It seems pretty obvious that no further breeding is planned. All in all, the long-term strategy does not seem clear.
You do get the feeling that this rule is not being looked at sensibly. The issue of hybridisation is in the past, and happened in India in the 1970s, if not earlier. Separate facilities for lion subspecies are no more likely to lead to hybrids than is the case for tigers: Howletts keeps three taxa of the latter without obvious problems!
Whipsnade's African Lions are not going anywhere, figuratively speaking. They were brought in ten years ago a) to have lions on show and b) to highlight ZSL's conservation work with carnivores in Tanzania (which could be done with Hunting Dogs). It seems pretty obvious that no further breeding is planned. All in all, the long-term strategy does not seem clear.
I'd imagine nothing will happen until the current male,Spike, passes away. Maybe breeding would have continued had the cubs not been 3-1 male/female or a suitable home for the cubs had been found.
Perhaps this highlights the current state of African lion breeding in the UK. Certainly with the wild population looking increasingly precarious a reassessment is needed by all zoos?
I think this 'rule' was brought in to ensure 100% there is no hybridisation within the EEP breeding groups, as had happened previously in an Indian Zoo. Far less likely in Europe but I suppose it would still be possible if both species are on the same site..
I guess in London's case it will be overlooked as the Zoo is a highly responsible institution, and they don't have too much choice anyway.
I also somewhat agree that a better Asian Lion exhibit would be possible at Whipsnade, except the existing Lion enclosure there is in the 'African Zone' and surrounded by other African animals while the Asian ungulates mentioned above already do duty in the 'Asian Plains' exhibit. So its rather impractical and would require an awful lot of shifting around, if they were to use the existing Lion enclosure for Asian Lions. The alternative, having two groups of Lions there in seperate enclosures permanently just wouldn't happen either. Its easier just to progress with their current plans at ZSL no doubt....
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Reticulated giraffe Bashu has arrived from Artis,Amsterdam!
How old is this male?
Is Savanah's female(?) calf still doing well?
I believe Bashu is 2 years old. Thats a guess but he is young, so a long-term investment it would seem!
Savannah's calf Willow (yes, she's a girl) appears to be going from strength-to-strength.
I see from their thread that Folly farm are to receive lions from Longleat , so a new enclosure will be used for African lions of no known sub-species . Seems a shame to me that no UK collection seems interested in working with pure sub-species African lions .
1.4 with the new arrival
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
I think if there is to be any controlled breeding of African Lions in zoos it will be done in North America, as there are no Asiatic Lions held there. Don't forget that lions are competing for cage space with tigers, and the status of the African Lion is far healthier than that of any tiger subspecies.
Presumably safari parks will continue to hold African Lions and those UK zoos that want African Lions for display purposes will filter off their surplus stock.
Does such a thing exist in zoos anymore? I thought you had as much chance of seeing a pure African lion subspecies as seeing pure Bengal tiger!
With the recent advancements in genetics it seems that West African lions are the ones to watch having, it would appear, more in common with Asian lion than their East African counterparts. An interesting article can be sourced from the BBC website.
Without wishing to divert this Whipsnade thread too much, a quick question- Do you think Folly Farm is on track to supercede Welsh Mountain Zoo as Wales' major animal collection?
Very different places . The Zoo is still only a part of a large Countryside Entertainment complex which is Folly Farm , and is likely to be always be such . I think the place - which I consider to be very good value - does so well because a lot of what is on offer is undercover . Given the amount of rainfall in West Wales and the lack of other undercover attractions this gives it a big advantage . It is good to see that the owners are willing to spend so much of the money generated on expanding the Zoo . I cannot think of anything comparable in the UK , it is certainly nothing like Chessington or Flamingoland in Yorkshire .
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Does such a thing exist in zoos anymore? I thought you had as much chance of seeing a pure African lion subspecies as seeing pure Bengal tiger!
With the recent advancements in genetics it seems that West African lions are the ones to watch having, it would appear, more in common with Asian lion than their East African counterparts. An interesting article can be sourced from the BBC website.
I think what it boils down to is that lions descending from the Gir Forest are pretty much the only ones in Europe that everybody agrees are of genetic importance.
The amount of meat (say) 4-5 adult lions consume in a year represents quite a lot of money, and as I say they are directly competing for cage space with tigers. I really don't think that you can make a conservation case for lions other than Panthera leo persica being bred in UK zoos, and certainly not in either belonging to ZSL.
Most Zoos nowadays want to be actively involved in conservation and scientific breeding projects, so as far as Lions go, for them Asian Lions present the obvious focus. Most of our major Zoos and Wildlife Parks(as opposed to Safari Parks) which keep Lions now have Asians- with obviously a few notable exceptions.
There was an article in a recent EAZA magazine about the need for Zoos to work with pure African lions . They indicate the need for genetic testing of current zoo stocks . Also looking at importing some wild Kalahari lions from Botswana to establish a zoo population .
There are probably quite a few pure South African lions in the UK , shame they are inbred white ones !
ZTL lists Kalahari lions at Basel and Salzburg , Somali lions at Gaiazoo and Southwest African ( Katanga ) lions at 18 European collections . I assume none of these are from recent importations from Africa .
Ferrets are now on show on the children's farm, and a Barn owl aviary is under construction.
There will no longer be any elephant demonstrations as the zoo wants to move away from displays that portray un-naturalistic behaviours. Personally, I'm in favour of this. The elephants daily walks will remain.
There will no longer be any elephant demonstrations as the zoo wants to move away from displays that portray un-naturalistic behaviours. Personally, I'm in favour of this. The elephants daily walks will remain.
News about the Flamingo-breeding at Whipsnade :
Seven new flamingo chicks hatch at Flamingo Lake | Zoological Society of London (ZSL)
Seven new flamingo chicks hatch at Flamingo Lake | Zoological Society of London (ZSL)
zooboy28
Well-Known Member
Could they not do displays that demonstrate natural behaviour? Surely a show that educates and contains conservation messages is important? There are plenty of naturalistic behaviours to show - even feeding with a keeper talk would attract lots of visitors.
Don't they also have a Sea Lion show? Are they going to scrap that too?
