Taronga Zoo Chimpanzee Troop
- Thread starter Chimo
- Start date
Susie was born in the wild. Her estimated date of birth was August 1948. She arrived at Taronga Zoo in October 1953.
Susie gave birth 8 times, including twins. Of these 9 offpsring, 8 survived to adolescence, which was phenomenal according to the records. Susie's births were:
January 1961
September 1962
January 1965
November 1967 (female)
January 1972 DIED
December 1974 (Sutu)
March 1978
May 1981 (Shiba)
The female born in 1965 was her fifth offspring, meaning the twins must have occured in one of Susie's first three births in either 1961, 1962 or 1965. Susie died in May 1995 at Taronga Zoo. Of her 8 surviving offspring, 7 were female.
Sutu was born in December 1974. She gave birth three times at Taronga:
December 1983 (Samantha)
October 1987 (Shona)
June 1991 (Sumu)
In December 1992, Samantha was exported to Wellington Zoo; Sutu and Sumu (aged 17 months) to Hyderabad Zoo. Sumu was renamed Mamantha on arrival. Shona remained at the zoo but has never bred, following a tubal ligation in the 1990s.
Shiba was born in May 1981. She gave birth twice in the 1990s:
April 1990 DIED
September 1994 (Shabani)
The records I have end in December 1999, so we don't know if Shiba produced any non surivivng offspring since the 2000s. We do of course know of:
November 2001 (Samaki)
February 2008 (Sembe)
August 2014 (Sudi)
Susie gave birth 8 times, including twins. Of these 9 offpsring, 8 survived to adolescence, which was phenomenal according to the records. Susie's births were:
January 1961
September 1962
January 1965
November 1967 (female)
January 1972 DIED
December 1974 (Sutu)
March 1978
May 1981 (Shiba)
The female born in 1965 was her fifth offspring, meaning the twins must have occured in one of Susie's first three births in either 1961, 1962 or 1965. Susie died in May 1995 at Taronga Zoo. Of her 8 surviving offspring, 7 were female.
Sutu was born in December 1974. She gave birth three times at Taronga:
December 1983 (Samantha)
October 1987 (Shona)
June 1991 (Sumu)
In December 1992, Samantha was exported to Wellington Zoo; Sutu and Sumu (aged 17 months) to Hyderabad Zoo. Sumu was renamed Mamantha on arrival. Shona remained at the zoo but has never bred, following a tubal ligation in the 1990s.
Shiba was born in May 1981. She gave birth twice in the 1990s:
April 1990 DIED
September 1994 (Shabani)
The records I have end in December 1999, so we don't know if Shiba produced any non surivivng offspring since the 2000s. We do of course know of:
November 2001 (Samaki)
February 2008 (Sembe)
August 2014 (Sudi)
Awesome info Zoofan15... thanks for sharing... you be da bomb!
Some interesting things I've noticed with the Taronga chimps of late...
Sule and Sembe have started stepping up their "babysitting" duties with Fumo and Sudi. It was especially nice to see Fumo go up to Sembe yesterday and give her the biggest greeting cuddle. Sembe appears to have finally found herself a place/job within the troop... yay!
Fumo's absolute favourite playmate is Koko! They will both seek each other out on regular occasions, and have a good play. Fumo adores his aunty Koko, and she seems to really enjoy their play sessions... which usually encompass a good toe biting session from cheeky Fumo... lol!
Sudi and Fumo have stepped up their play sessions with each other - under the watchful eye of Shiba. Fumo has been trying to teach Sudi the art of somersaulting, climbing onto logs and jumping off, rope work, and general rough and tumble wrestling sessions. Sudi is quickly catching up with Fumo in size... methinks Sudi is going to be a big boy like his brother Samaki.
Fumo's rough play still worries Liwali, but Lisa is allowing interaction, and will gently move Fumo away or distract him if/when he starts getting too rough. Managed to photograph Fumo trying to show Liwali how to climb/swing from the ropes the other day... Liwali still has a lot of work to do in that regard, but has been practicing his swinging by one arm from Lisa when she's been perched on things not too high. Lisa is still keeping Liwali very close and not letting him stray very far. Hard to believe that only 6 weeks separates Sudi and Liwali - they are so different in their current abilities.
Liwali has finally started to ride on Lisa's back - or more likely, her bottom... his "style" leaves a bit to be desired... lol! Sudi is the king of back riding, and rarely uses all hands/feet to hold on.
Biggest thing to note has been Kamili initiating contact/play with the little ones. Have a sequence of photos of her initiating play with both Fumo and Sudi together the other day. The littlies had a ball! Have also seen her actively interacting with Liwali, and Lisa is actually happy for her to do it... there may be hope for Kamili yet... fingers crossed!
T.
Some interesting things I've noticed with the Taronga chimps of late...
Sule and Sembe have started stepping up their "babysitting" duties with Fumo and Sudi. It was especially nice to see Fumo go up to Sembe yesterday and give her the biggest greeting cuddle. Sembe appears to have finally found herself a place/job within the troop... yay!
Fumo's absolute favourite playmate is Koko! They will both seek each other out on regular occasions, and have a good play. Fumo adores his aunty Koko, and she seems to really enjoy their play sessions... which usually encompass a good toe biting session from cheeky Fumo... lol!
Sudi and Fumo have stepped up their play sessions with each other - under the watchful eye of Shiba. Fumo has been trying to teach Sudi the art of somersaulting, climbing onto logs and jumping off, rope work, and general rough and tumble wrestling sessions. Sudi is quickly catching up with Fumo in size... methinks Sudi is going to be a big boy like his brother Samaki.
Fumo's rough play still worries Liwali, but Lisa is allowing interaction, and will gently move Fumo away or distract him if/when he starts getting too rough. Managed to photograph Fumo trying to show Liwali how to climb/swing from the ropes the other day... Liwali still has a lot of work to do in that regard, but has been practicing his swinging by one arm from Lisa when she's been perched on things not too high. Lisa is still keeping Liwali very close and not letting him stray very far. Hard to believe that only 6 weeks separates Sudi and Liwali - they are so different in their current abilities.
Liwali has finally started to ride on Lisa's back - or more likely, her bottom... his "style" leaves a bit to be desired... lol! Sudi is the king of back riding, and rarely uses all hands/feet to hold on.
Biggest thing to note has been Kamili initiating contact/play with the little ones. Have a sequence of photos of her initiating play with both Fumo and Sudi together the other day. The littlies had a ball! Have also seen her actively interacting with Liwali, and Lisa is actually happy for her to do it... there may be hope for Kamili yet... fingers crossed!
T.
Thanks tdierikx, I have more records to come!
Great to hear an update regarding Fumo, Sudi and Liwali too
I'm surprised to hear the differences between Liwali and Sudi. I thoguht Shiba was the more protective of the two mothers, although it appears she's relaxed a lot more in recent months.
Is Shiba bigger than Kuma size wise? I always thought Kuma was the largest female, but her son Furahi isn't particualy large, and neither is Fumo, in comparison to Sudi. I understand Samaki is still the largest male.
That sounds encouraging regarding Kamili, there could be hope for her yet. With Koko now in her 40s, she could do with some additional family support as time goes on.
Great to hear an update regarding Fumo, Sudi and Liwali too
I'm surprised to hear the differences between Liwali and Sudi. I thoguht Shiba was the more protective of the two mothers, although it appears she's relaxed a lot more in recent months.
Is Shiba bigger than Kuma size wise? I always thought Kuma was the largest female, but her son Furahi isn't particualy large, and neither is Fumo, in comparison to Sudi. I understand Samaki is still the largest male.
That sounds encouraging regarding Kamili, there could be hope for her yet. With Koko now in her 40s, she could do with some additional family support as time goes on.
It certainly looks like Lisa is the least likely to allow her little one some freedom... lol!
Shiba was pretty clingy with Sudi at first, but the little bugger definitely had other ideas about that, and she's had to back off a little and let him do stuff. Sudi is definitely going to give Fumo a run for his money in the coming months methinks...
Shiba is a big and fairly solid girl with long limbs, so she probably comes in at just a bit bigger than Kuma all over... but Kuma wins in the massive biceps stakes... lol! Maybe they are more noticable because Kuma has less hair covering her arms than Shiba does?
Samaki is still the largest chimp all around, but Shikamoo isn't all that far behind him.
Shabani is taller than Samaki, but is a leaner build, with really long limbs - but I'd say he was up there in the powerful stakes too.
Furahi and Lubutu are both smaller and quite stockily built...
Sudi may well be inheriting the longer/larger body shape of his line... and Fumo, well, who knows... lol!
Gonna be interesting to see the size differences between all 3 babies once Lisa starts giving Liwali more freedom - at the moment I think he's tracking to be somewhere in between the other two.
I saw Lisa leave Liwali with Spitter for ashort while a couple of weeks ago... much to Spitter's horror... hehe!
T.
Shiba was pretty clingy with Sudi at first, but the little bugger definitely had other ideas about that, and she's had to back off a little and let him do stuff. Sudi is definitely going to give Fumo a run for his money in the coming months methinks...
Shiba is a big and fairly solid girl with long limbs, so she probably comes in at just a bit bigger than Kuma all over... but Kuma wins in the massive biceps stakes... lol! Maybe they are more noticable because Kuma has less hair covering her arms than Shiba does?
Samaki is still the largest chimp all around, but Shikamoo isn't all that far behind him.
Shabani is taller than Samaki, but is a leaner build, with really long limbs - but I'd say he was up there in the powerful stakes too.
Furahi and Lubutu are both smaller and quite stockily built...
Sudi may well be inheriting the longer/larger body shape of his line... and Fumo, well, who knows... lol!
Gonna be interesting to see the size differences between all 3 babies once Lisa starts giving Liwali more freedom - at the moment I think he's tracking to be somewhere in between the other two.
I saw Lisa leave Liwali with Spitter for ashort while a couple of weeks ago... much to Spitter's horror... hehe!
T.
That's interesting Tdierikx, Sembe has much longer limbs than the smaller, but stockier Sule, so she obviously gets this from her mother.
I have always imagined Sasha as being smaller than the other females, perhaps because of Sule's small size, but from what you say, Shikamoo is quite large.
I read over some records from Wellington Zoo (2005) recently, regarding the chimpanzee they were sent from Taronga.
Sally (Spitter's daughter) was the heaviest. She had no surviving offspring at the time.
Samantha (Sutu's daughter/Shiba's niece) wasn't far behind Sally. Her son Temba was large for his age, and is now the heaviest in the current troop. Her daughter Keza was the same size as the other male juvenile of the same age.
Cara (Chiki's daughter) was the lightest. Her daughter, Chima (now deceased) was also quite small, as was her juvenile son, Alexis, who was approximately the same age as Keza.
A large size/build clearly runs in Suzie's family line, but Chiki's line certainly seems more variable, as Cara/Chima contrast with the large size of Chiki/Chimbuka. All depends on the additional factor of paternity I guess.
On that note, Taronga are yet to determine/announce paternity of their latest three surviving infants: Fumo, Sudi and Liwali, but here are my guesses:
Fumo (Shikamoo)
Sudi (Samaki)
Liwali (Furahi)
Taronga are still waiting for the DNA results to come back for paternity of the 3 babies. Hair samples have been taken for all of them, and have been sent for testing... we now just wait until the answers come back and Taronga sees fit to share them with us... *grin*
I'm leaning towards the same baby daddies as you are Zoofan15 - although Samaki could be baby daddy for both Sudi and Liwali... I'm looking at ear shape to base my guesses on for those two. I found baby photos of Samaki where it shows his ears having the same kinks/folds as Sudi/Liwali. Fumo's ears don't have the same folds. Sembe didn't have the same folds when she was a baby, so I don't think they come from Shiba.
Sasha is one of the smallest females in the troop, but 2 of her boys have grown to be quite big - don't forget Sandali who was transferred to Monarto... Sule has been having some growth spurts of late too, so I don't know whether he's going to stay all that small, and he's built like a tank... lol!
Interesting that none of us chimp-watchers are tipping Shabani to be the baby daddy... even though he's usually the one following any female in season like a bad smell... lol! I think he's spreading himself too thin, which would actually reduce his chances. Even the keepers I've asked to guess at baby daddies haven't tipped Shabani...
Interestingly,the only breedable female at Taronga who didn't get pregnant in the past 2 years was Sasha... 3 healthy babies from 5 pregnancies is a pretty good strike rate, don't you think? Only mismothering meant that all 5 didn't make it. How much bedlam do you think we would have had if we had FIVE toddler chimps running about?
Kamili's unsolicited interactions with the current 3 babies is encouraging. Up until now, she has never shown any interest in baby chimps at all... I'm hoping this means that she may eventually come to the party and become a successful mother herself some day.
T.
I'm leaning towards the same baby daddies as you are Zoofan15 - although Samaki could be baby daddy for both Sudi and Liwali... I'm looking at ear shape to base my guesses on for those two. I found baby photos of Samaki where it shows his ears having the same kinks/folds as Sudi/Liwali. Fumo's ears don't have the same folds. Sembe didn't have the same folds when she was a baby, so I don't think they come from Shiba.
Sasha is one of the smallest females in the troop, but 2 of her boys have grown to be quite big - don't forget Sandali who was transferred to Monarto... Sule has been having some growth spurts of late too, so I don't know whether he's going to stay all that small, and he's built like a tank... lol!
Interesting that none of us chimp-watchers are tipping Shabani to be the baby daddy... even though he's usually the one following any female in season like a bad smell... lol! I think he's spreading himself too thin, which would actually reduce his chances. Even the keepers I've asked to guess at baby daddies haven't tipped Shabani...
Interestingly,the only breedable female at Taronga who didn't get pregnant in the past 2 years was Sasha... 3 healthy babies from 5 pregnancies is a pretty good strike rate, don't you think? Only mismothering meant that all 5 didn't make it. How much bedlam do you think we would have had if we had FIVE toddler chimps running about?
Kamili's unsolicited interactions with the current 3 babies is encouraging. Up until now, she has never shown any interest in baby chimps at all... I'm hoping this means that she may eventually come to the party and become a successful mother herself some day.
T.
Definately agree regarding Shabani, I think he tries to breed with all the females; as oppose to the younger lads who get less oppotunities with fewer females, and can therefore focus their "biological efforts" on the hopefully receptive female.
Going through my records, as I am, I've noted some impressively short birth intervals (even when the previous baby has survived). I used to think 3-5 years was the average, but I'm comnig across 20 months, 28 months etc. Do you know if Kuma, Shiba and Lisa are now on contraceptives? If not, 19 month old Fumo may be in the running for a sibling in the not too distant future.
It's a shame the offspring of Koko and Kamili died, it would be crazy having five male babies in the group! A zoo in Germany were able to get a mother with a two year old to take on an abandoned newborn. I wonder if this could be trialled at Taronga. Even a chimpanzee like Shona could provide for the baby emotionally/socially, but be trained to present the baby at the bars for bottle feeding (again, this has been done at other zoos). Just a few ideas....
Taronga are quite opposed to any form of hand rearing of the great apes... it usually leads to all sorts of issues later on... like Kamili's issues related to maternity. She has never seen her own mother rear another baby, and even though she's seen a lot of other babies reared naturally in this troop, she has some very backward reactions to the little ones when they are very small (and we won't go into how Koko seems to really like the toddlers, but is not so enamoured of newborns).
As for the current trio of mothers at Taronga, I've not seen any of them with a swelling that interests any of the boys since they had their respective babies... but as soon as they may be fertile again, I'm pretty sure they will be put onto contraceptives (if not already). I don't think Taronga were really wanting all 5 females to get pregnant a couple of years ago - can you imagine having 5 babies at once? It would be a nightmare!
It looks like Taronga prefer larger gaps between individual females giving birth again. Put that together with the size of the current troop, and I'm sure they wouldn't be looking to continue breeding some of the current mothers again anytime soon. The injection of new blood (female), and hopefully having any form of success with Kamili, will make for a more robust gene pool, yes? I think they have might given up on Koko to produce any more live offspring... or at least aren't looking to actively go down that path...
I'm not terribly familiar with other zoos' chimp populations, but Taronga's troop would have to be pretty high up there on the numbers in any troop in a public zoo, yes? Especially when you are looking at space, group politics, male:female ratios, enrichment to enable natural behaviours, etc... it would be a huge job to keep the balances just right for peace and harmony and general wellbeing of all members of the troop. The team at Taronga are bloody amazing when you think about what it must take to keep everything in balance the way they do...
T.
As for the current trio of mothers at Taronga, I've not seen any of them with a swelling that interests any of the boys since they had their respective babies... but as soon as they may be fertile again, I'm pretty sure they will be put onto contraceptives (if not already). I don't think Taronga were really wanting all 5 females to get pregnant a couple of years ago - can you imagine having 5 babies at once? It would be a nightmare!
It looks like Taronga prefer larger gaps between individual females giving birth again. Put that together with the size of the current troop, and I'm sure they wouldn't be looking to continue breeding some of the current mothers again anytime soon. The injection of new blood (female), and hopefully having any form of success with Kamili, will make for a more robust gene pool, yes? I think they have might given up on Koko to produce any more live offspring... or at least aren't looking to actively go down that path...
I'm not terribly familiar with other zoos' chimp populations, but Taronga's troop would have to be pretty high up there on the numbers in any troop in a public zoo, yes? Especially when you are looking at space, group politics, male:female ratios, enrichment to enable natural behaviours, etc... it would be a huge job to keep the balances just right for peace and harmony and general wellbeing of all members of the troop. The team at Taronga are bloody amazing when you think about what it must take to keep everything in balance the way they do...
T.
More records....
Spitter
Spitter was born at Taronga Zoo in June 1960. The records don't unfortuantely state a sire or a dam, but it seems likely her mother was a female named Sadie.
Spitter gave birth 7 times at Taronga Zoo:
December 1971 Died
June 1973 Died
April 1975 Died
May 1978 Died
June 1980 Sasha
January 1985 Sally
December 1988 Gombe
Spitter was put on contraception in March 1992, and has not bred since. She will turn 55 next month. Sasha remained at Taronga Zoo; Sally was exported to Wellington Zoo in 1992; Gombe remained at Taronga Zoo until his death in 2001.
Spitter's standing in the troop increased significantly in 1999, when the death and exportation on Snowy and Monty, left her 11 year old son Gombe, as the dominant male. His death two years later, and the subsequent takeover of Lubutu as dominant male reversed this position.
Sasha had three births listed on the records (dated 1999):
September 1989 Died
April 1991 Kike
February 1996 Sandali
The records list contraception as being administered following Kike's birth in 1991, and again following Sandali's birth. Kike was exported to Ishikawa Zoo in 1999. Sandali was exported to Monarto Zoo in 2009. Sasha has since given birth to two offspring that we know of:
July 2003 Shikamoo
April 2008 Sule
Spitter
Spitter was born at Taronga Zoo in June 1960. The records don't unfortuantely state a sire or a dam, but it seems likely her mother was a female named Sadie.
Spitter gave birth 7 times at Taronga Zoo:
December 1971 Died
June 1973 Died
April 1975 Died
May 1978 Died
June 1980 Sasha
January 1985 Sally
December 1988 Gombe
Spitter was put on contraception in March 1992, and has not bred since. She will turn 55 next month. Sasha remained at Taronga Zoo; Sally was exported to Wellington Zoo in 1992; Gombe remained at Taronga Zoo until his death in 2001.
Spitter's standing in the troop increased significantly in 1999, when the death and exportation on Snowy and Monty, left her 11 year old son Gombe, as the dominant male. His death two years later, and the subsequent takeover of Lubutu as dominant male reversed this position.
Sasha had three births listed on the records (dated 1999):
September 1989 Died
April 1991 Kike
February 1996 Sandali
The records list contraception as being administered following Kike's birth in 1991, and again following Sandali's birth. Kike was exported to Ishikawa Zoo in 1999. Sandali was exported to Monarto Zoo in 2009. Sasha has since given birth to two offspring that we know of:
July 2003 Shikamoo
April 2008 Sule
Sanda (1985) and Tsotsi (1989) are full siblings born at Adelaide Zoo. Their mother Fimi was born in Germany, so not unless they are related through the paternal line.
Yes, Taronga have one of the largest troops in the world. They are certainly the largest within Australasia. Monkey World in Dorset have several large troops.
Certainly in the 80s and 90s, Taronga's large number of surplus offspring meant they were able to supply a number of other zoos, and since that demand remains, it'd be nice to see Taronga fill that capacity, since they are in a posititon to do so. I believe each mother should be allowed to keep at least two offspring for family support etc. so they idea of exporting Furahi, Sule etc. seems unfair.
It'd be nice if they could continue the family lines through Lani and Sembe, and ideally breed a female from Kuma, but I guess this in unlikely to happen with new females coming in.
Many zoos - Hamilton, Monarto etc. have small troops they would like to expand, so by breeding at least four offspring from each Taronga female, they could easily retain two males for family support, one female for continuation of the family line, leaving one or more available for export.
From the records, it seems the survival of offspring to mothers over 35 is unlikely, but not impossible. I'm confident Sudi and Liwali will be the last offspring of their mother's. Time for Lani and Sembe to take over the torch! On that note, by not breeding females until they are 15/16, zoos are missing out on 5 years or more of the female being of prime breeding age. From the records, the shorter birth intervals were from mothers aged 10-20 (See notes on Susie above).
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I sure hope Taronga doesnt breed eratically as what happened in the past. There are already enough mixed race chimps in captivity as it is. Not to mention the degree of inbreeding that has occurred. The issue is that, although many chimps have left Taronga over the past few decades, very few new chimps have come in to diversify the genes, so these two new girls from Denmark are a great addition.
The concern that I have (and I'm sure Taronga primate staff have) is the ever growing number of males in the troop... seems there's something in the water at Taronga, as so many of the recent births all over the zoo have been male... *grin* (Bongo, Chimps, Gorilla, Seal, etc)
I'm wondering if some of the males will be moved off to other zoos, or whether they may try for an all male offshoot troop? Or even if they split off Lubutu and the females they no longer want to breed, and allow for another male to take on an alpha role with the breedable females?
Whatever route they decide will have it's pros and cons, I'm sure...
The interbreeding would start to be of a greater concern the longer we have related males breeding with the current females, yes?
Sasha could theoretically be bred again in the near future - if Sule would allow any of the males near her when she has a swelling... *sigh*
Possibly Shiba *could* be bred again as long as she maintains her current excellent health until Sudi is old enough to be independent.
Kuma and Kamili are young enough to be bred at least once or twice more... Kamili being the most important when it comes to genes...
Lani and Sembe are prime for breeding as soon as it is deemed they are ready for motherhood. Sembe could need to mature a lot more emotionally before being considered at this point, but she's slowly working out her role in the troop and accepting the facts of life as she knows it...
2 new unrelated females are going to be a godsend! Let's hope they produce females too!
I have faith that the Taronga primate keepers are not looking to breed willy-nilly - there will be a plan they are working towards...
T.
I'm wondering if some of the males will be moved off to other zoos, or whether they may try for an all male offshoot troop? Or even if they split off Lubutu and the females they no longer want to breed, and allow for another male to take on an alpha role with the breedable females?
Whatever route they decide will have it's pros and cons, I'm sure...
The interbreeding would start to be of a greater concern the longer we have related males breeding with the current females, yes?
Sasha could theoretically be bred again in the near future - if Sule would allow any of the males near her when she has a swelling... *sigh*
Possibly Shiba *could* be bred again as long as she maintains her current excellent health until Sudi is old enough to be independent.
Kuma and Kamili are young enough to be bred at least once or twice more... Kamili being the most important when it comes to genes...
Lani and Sembe are prime for breeding as soon as it is deemed they are ready for motherhood. Sembe could need to mature a lot more emotionally before being considered at this point, but she's slowly working out her role in the troop and accepting the facts of life as she knows it...
2 new unrelated females are going to be a godsend! Let's hope they produce females too!
I have faith that the Taronga primate keepers are not looking to breed willy-nilly - there will be a plan they are working towards...
T.
One of many contributing factors towards the large number of males in the troop, could be the improved infant mortality rate. Females are more likely to survive the first few weeks than males, so during the 70s and 80s, when the infant mortality rate was relatively high, the survivng infants were mostly female. Today, with advances in animal husbandry, the majority of the males born are surviving what was previously a risky time.
The large number of males in the troop could become a management issue with conflicts etc. It is a concern rasied by Wellington Zoo in the past. As far as I can tell, this hasn't been too much of an issue with Taronga Zoo, but as the male:female ratio shifts to a 50:50 balance, this situation could deteriorate.
One option could be to remove Lubutu, Shabani, Samaki, Furahi and Shikamoo from the troop. None of the mothers would be disadvantaged more than the others as they would each have at least one offspring in the troop.
This would however raise the following questions:
-Would the males remain at Taronga Zoo?
-If so, would their exhibit maintain visual/vocal contact between this bachelor troop and the main troop?
-Would Sule remain in the main troop to take over as the dominant male? (I think it'd be unfair to remove both of Sasha's offspring)
-If Sule was included in the bachelor troop, could new males be imported without risk to the safety of Fumo, Sudi and Liwali?
-Would Lani and Sembe remain in the main troop to continue their lineages?
I think Sembe will make an excellent mother. She has grown up a lot in the last few months, since the birth of Sudi, and is showing good maternal behaviour towards Fumo. Hopefully she will get the chance in couple of years, as will Lani
Few zoos could have provided them with the experience they've gained from watching mothers with infants etc.We are certainly moving into some interesting times for the Taronga chimp troop...
I wouldn't want to be the people having to make the decisions, that's for sure!
There are rumours that Lani and Sembe may end up going to another zoo at some point.
Sule is related to Lani and Sembe, so you probably wouldn't have a preference for him to mate with them, yes?
Kamili could be bred with any of the viable males, so she poses the least genetic problem of all the current girls... but she has yet to prove herself in the baby rearing arena... *sigh*
Shabani could breed with most, if not all, of the current feasible females for the best genetic mix - but he's not a popular choice for Alpha status among the rest of the troop. He's trying hard to be a daddy though... lol!
The 2 new girls will be a godsend genetically... if/when they arrive... and then manage to rear offspring successfully.
Right now though, I'm having so much fun watching the current 3 little ones growing up... they are all really starting to come into their own now and showing off their amazing little personalities.
T.
I wouldn't want to be the people having to make the decisions, that's for sure!
There are rumours that Lani and Sembe may end up going to another zoo at some point.
Sule is related to Lani and Sembe, so you probably wouldn't have a preference for him to mate with them, yes?
Kamili could be bred with any of the viable males, so she poses the least genetic problem of all the current girls... but she has yet to prove herself in the baby rearing arena... *sigh*
Shabani could breed with most, if not all, of the current feasible females for the best genetic mix - but he's not a popular choice for Alpha status among the rest of the troop. He's trying hard to be a daddy though... lol!
The 2 new girls will be a godsend genetically... if/when they arrive... and then manage to rear offspring successfully.
Right now though, I'm having so much fun watching the current 3 little ones growing up... they are all really starting to come into their own now and showing off their amazing little personalities.
T.
My understanding IS: the chimpanzees being exported to the ZAA / Australasia zoo region ARE mixed / hybrid origin chimpanzees. The EAZA/EEP focuses exclusively on maintaining the Pan troglodytes verus (West African chimpanzee) as well as NOW starting up one for the nominate race Pan troglodytes troglodytes from Central Africa.
I am sorry to dash your hopes on this.
I - personally - do think we in the captive community should re-assess our commitment to do (conservation-) breeding only along pure-bred lineages and leave the others to live out their lifespan without any further breeding.
Same applies to lion, tiger and f.i. giraffe (forgetting quite a host of others here YES, but ... for ease of reference ...) where conservation-breeding along pure-bred subspecies / species-level is the only way forward for zoos to have any meaningful impact on saving species both in captivity and in situ.
As an aside: my philosophy and convictions re the above further apply to any potential for re-introduction into range countries of species we are able to breed successfully in good numbers and for which a DIRECT NEED exists to stabilise or improve genetic management of populations. Viz for this also the WAZA preambules on META POPULATION MANAGEMENT!!!
As always, you make a good point Tdierikx, Sule is definately not a good match for Lani and Sembe.
Lani and Sembe's options within Australasia are relatively limited. The only two males at Hamilton Zoo are grandsons of Lulu, and Temba and Alexis at Wellington will be related to the troop, through their Taronga born mothers, Samantha and Cara. With the male at Rockhampton unlikely to breed, that essentially leaves Monarto, who hold an unrelated male, Tsoti. Yes, they have Sandali there, but their is no reason that Monarto is less than suitable than say Wellington Zoo, and of course nearer to Taronga.
Therefore...I think the most logical step would be either a transfer of Lani and Sembe to Monarto, or (my preference) a breeding holiday, where they return to Taronga either pregnant, or with infants. As previously posted by myself, the only introduction undertaken in this case at Monarto would be of that of Tsoti to Lani and Sembe. All other introductions would be pointless if they were not to remain there.
Sule could then be bred with Kuma, Kamili, and the two new females. This combined with the return of Lani and Sembe, would give a good output of offspring to sustain the troop long term.
Shabani as you say, is unpopular amongst the females. Sasha doesn't like Lubutu but they will glady put their differences aside to fight off bigger foe (Shabani). If Shabani is to take over as troop leader (which I wouldn't recommend, it would probably require the removal of all adult males!!!). Don't forget, Lubutu had a vasectomy in 2009, so it's only Samaki, Shikamoo and Furahi he's competing to father offspring.
Don't forget that Kuma is related to Lubutu somewhere in her lines, so breeding her with Sule could be a little close... then again Fumo could be from any of the other adult males in the group, of which 3 are also related via Lubutu...
Shabani is plenty popular with all of the females when they have a swelling... lol! Kamili in particular seems to really have a preference for him... she was haranguing him yesterday for showing interest in someone else's swelling even! Took after him with a stick she did!
I could see Shikamoo leading a small troop of viable females - Kuma, Kamili, the 2 new girls, and possibly Shiba - especially if he has proven himself by fathering any of the latest 3 babies. Sule could possibly stay with that group too to give Shikamoo some help or support, and/or to take on alpha role later...
It would be great if somewhere could be found for Samaki and Furahi, but they seem pretty content with their current roles in Lubutu's troop - Shabani may be a bit old for introduction to a new troop... ??
Then there's the conundrum of what to do with the current 3 boy babies once they mature...
T.
Shabani is plenty popular with all of the females when they have a swelling... lol! Kamili in particular seems to really have a preference for him... she was haranguing him yesterday for showing interest in someone else's swelling even! Took after him with a stick she did!
I could see Shikamoo leading a small troop of viable females - Kuma, Kamili, the 2 new girls, and possibly Shiba - especially if he has proven himself by fathering any of the latest 3 babies. Sule could possibly stay with that group too to give Shikamoo some help or support, and/or to take on alpha role later...
It would be great if somewhere could be found for Samaki and Furahi, but they seem pretty content with their current roles in Lubutu's troop - Shabani may be a bit old for introduction to a new troop... ??
Then there's the conundrum of what to do with the current 3 boy babies once they mature...
T.