Twycross Zoo Twycross Zoo news 2015

[Pertinax]

Noddy ~ donated by Mrs Lock NO she never looked after any she had
Coco~donated by the French foreign legion, she should be on the pill
Josie~possible she could bred-not sure about parentagele
Choppers~donated by Mrs Lock she had a hysterectomy
Jolly~yes but she was a hand rear-unsure of parentage

Afaik these five are the only DNA proven West African females.

By age I might now discount Noddy and Coco and you say Choppers is a no go anyway. So that leaves just Josie and Jolly of those they currently have.

Most of the others would be excluded due to hybridisation issues. Unfortunately male 'Oscar' from whom several other Chimps (including Coco's offspring) there are descended, must have proven not be pure West African too, otherwise there would be several other candidates too.

 

[Pertinax]

Flynn~castrated male
Tommy~castrated male
William~castrated male
Peter~castrated male- kip dad Samantha mum
Jomar~castrated male

I did not realise these several males are all castrated. It might explain why I thought Flynn looked quite slender and not particularly 'male' when I saw him. So five out of the nine(now ten) males there are castrated ones? But neither of the bald ones are.

 

[Jane Doe]

Hi
I got coco donates wrong it was The British Foreign Legion and Josie came from Dudley zoo she was the one that was take and put in the toilets many years ago.

I am not sure why Jambo and Mongo were castrated ? The other chimps that are missing fur that is down to over grooming one starts it and the rest follow it is a habit, you didn't mention Tuli ?

Coppers had a hysterectomy it was done by John Ambler the vet because if she didn't have it done she would die.

This is where the older keepers who worked with the chimps would know about them. Reading from a book is ok but having the hands on knowledge is worth its weight in gold.

 

[karoocheetah]

Hi

I am not sure why Jambo and Mongo were castrated ?

Historically Chimps have been castrated to make them less "aggressive" and easier to manage, Gorilla too but I have no idea if this mode of thinking was also applied to Orangs?

 

[Pertinax]

I am not sure why Jambo and Mongo were castrated ?

Reading from a book is ok but having the hands on knowledge is worth its weight in gold.

According to your list above, both Jambo and Mongo have not been castrated. Mongo isn't, I am sure, as I saw him earlier this year.

The 1987 UK Chimpanzee studbook which was produced by Twycross, lists a number of their Chimps according to their locations, as having come from 'West Africa', and a lot of the others in zoos elsewhere in the UK too. Of course that doesn't guarantee these are all of the pure West African subspecies- as is apparent in the case of the male 'Oscar'- and that seems to have shown up with the much more recent DNA testing which wasn't available back then.

 

[Pertinax]

Gorilla too but I have no idea if this mode of thinking was also applied to Orangs?

A small number of young male Gorillas have only been castrated in recent years in a few European Zoos as a trial policy to see if they can live in their natal groups longerterm, rather than having to move them into all male groups. It has aroused significant controversy. I know of no case in Orangutans though.

 

[zoogiraffe]

According to your list above, both Jambo and Mongo have not been castrated. Mongo isn't, I am sure, as I saw him earlier this year.

The 1987 UK Chimpanzee studbook which was produced by Twycross, lists a number of their Chimps according to their locations, as having come from 'West Africa', and a lot of the others in zoos elsewhere in the UK too. Of course that doesn't guarantee these are all of the pure West African subspecies- as is apparent in the case of the male 'Oscar'- and that seems to have shown up with the much more recent DNA testing which wasn't available back then.

I think you might find this interesting ZootierlisteHomepage as if this is correct it means that 2 of the Twycross females are of this sub-species!!

 

[Pertinax]

Most of the others would be excluded due to hybridisation issues.

ZG-I believe that to be correct also, which is why I said most of the others, as against all in the above. I don't know if anything can be done with them apart from just hang on to them though.

 

[zoogiraffe]

I think most of that sub species in Europe are now females so pretty much the end of the line!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I think most of that sub species in Europe are now females so pretty much the end of the line!

It seems not too many schweinfurthis are in European zoos. But: a significant portion of all wild caught chimpanzees in European zoos has not been determined to subspecific level and testing continues.

In the UK, most collections have tested their chimpanzees and amongst those at Blair Drummond and Chester f.i. have tested in majority as being pure-bred West African verus. The only regular zoo for which results have not yet come through is Dudley.

Talking of the infamous Monkey World, of course they lag behind it all. Somewhat controversial …, as most of their chimpanzees are wild caught and quite a few of these are in the younger age groups. Chances are that amongst this group there may be more schweinfurthis and troglodytes than we might think.

Incidentally, a good number of the erstwhile breeding group of chimpanzees at ZSL - London Regent's Park where in fact troglodytes and here the policy of simply neutering has somewhat back-fired as at least 4.1 pure-bred troglodytes have been neutered in the process …. It seems in hindsight that this policy might perhaps not be the best method of preventing reproduction in groups still thought of at the time as unknowns ….


In the case of TWZ the pure-bred chimpanzees are:
1) VERUS
Females Coco, Choppers, Noddy, Jollie and Josie.
Now to be joined by male Kibali from Zoo Bremerhaven in Germany.

2) SCHWEINFURTHI
Females Tojo and Samantha.

All others are hybrids, I am afraid.

 

[Pertinax]

It seems not too many schweinfurthis are in European zoos.

The only regular zoo for which results have not yet come through is Dudley....Incidentally, a good number of the erstwhile breeding group of chimpanzees at ZSL - London Regent's Park where in fact troglodytes and here the policy of simply neutering has somewhat back-fired as at least 4.1 pure-bred troglodytes have been neutered in the process ….

That is a pity- I don't know how they rank in the wild numerically but of course the famous Chimps of Gombe Stream Research are of this race, and I believe their numbers have declined fairly dramatically.

Dudley- the current group of females there all originate from ZSL, so could be troglodytes also?

Re the female Josie* at Twycross- if she has been proven by DNA to be verus and was actually born at Dudley, then her parents in their original group; Pepe x ? (Bella or Cherry) must have been pure verus too. So could the old female Koko at Whipsnade, also from them.

Its a pity so many places will turn out to have a mix of hybrids and pures, and that some re-arranging/transfers can't be done, to consolidate the pures into better groupings. But of course its costly and would upset existing group dynamics, as well as some places being unwilling to be involved no doubt. But perhaps just a few might be transferred beneficially in this way.

* Josie- what is her story i.e. being 'stolen' from Dudley. Have never heard about this...

 

[mazfc]

I did not realise these several males are all castrated. It might explain why I thought Flynn looked quite slender and not particularly 'male' when I saw him. So five out of the nine(now ten) males there are castrated ones? But neither of the bald ones are.

Just looking at him Flynn isn't castrated. Not a pretty sight sometimes from the rear!!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Both Pepe and Bella have been assigned to verus!

Whipsnade: amongst their immigrant chimpanzee 1.2 were troglodytes (Oscar, Daisy and Brenda). Both Koko and Elvis are still on record as indeterminate (aka need further testing). Koko's parentage is Pepe x Cherry (the latter also indeterminate).

Dudley: it is not a forgone conclusion that they hold any troglodytes let alone that most of their females are. Female Malaika is a confirmed hybrid and only females Fula and Fanny were wild born ones. Their recorded histories are a bit shrouded in mystery too. Perhaps someone else may be able to clarify that.

 

[Jane Doe]

pray tell how are they going to bred with choppers she had a hysterectomy it was done by John Ambler the vet because if she didn't have it done she would die but perhaps TZ might revers it ?

I know Mrs Boardman isn't there now but her policy was NO Hand rearing and that is what they will do with any off spring Noddy has because she has NO maternal instinct what so ever so there are 2 that would be OUT and as for COCO a) she is too old and b) she mainly has chocolate.

Josie and Jollie would both make potentially good mothers but it must be remembered they were both hand rears perhaps they should be shown a video of how to bring up baby.

 

[mazfc]

Jollie is Tommy's mum, do you know why she didn't rear him?

I can't see anyone suggesting Choppers is used for breeding, even without a hysterectomy her age and fragility would rule her out.

I'd agree about Noddy. I'm not sure it was worth taking the risk with her.

I also just can't imagine Josie with a baby but you never know. She's never bred has she?

If it wasn't genetics Tuli would be the best bet being mother reared herself.

 

[Jane Doe]

Jollie is not tommy's mother I am not a 100% sure but I think lorries is tommy's mother jolly has never had a baby ever as for choppers and noddy it was mentioned further up this thread ,lorries has given up her babies before some of the chimps don't want to rear their offspring

 

[hippophilic]

Would they consider allowing a non versus (like Tuli"s mum) to breed to show the others how it's done?

 

[Jane Doe]

It is a real pity because Tuli's mum Mcwendu passed away.

 

[Pertinax]

Handraising doesn't necessarily preclude good maternal instinct, even with a first time baby. I've known several handraised apes or ones coming from very limited social backgrounds without any previous maternal example, that were themselves perfect first time mothers e.g. Gorilla 'Romina' at Bristol. On the other hand, some bad mothers(like e.g Noddy) often never learn how to raise a baby, they just reject them out of hand. The older the ape is, the less likely it is of learning new behaviours, even if given examples.

I don't think anyone is suggesting they are likely to try to breed from any of the three older 'verus' females at Twycross, only that DNA has shown them to be among the pure ones. I would guess hopes of establishing a pure group would rest with the two youngest ones and they could of course add others from outside if they can source any.

 

[mazfc]

Jollie is not tommy's mother I am not a 100% sure but I think lorries is tommy's mother jolly has never had a baby ever as for choppers and noddy it was mentioned further up this thread ,lorries has given up her babies before some of the chimps don't want to rear their offspring

The studbook 2006 says that Jollie (chimp 12045) is Tommy's mum, though the father is listed as unknown.

Who is lorries? Think it might be an autocorrect t thing but can't work it out.