Reptilarium, schematic!

[Batto]

You need real experience. Preferably with safer species. Get some Correlophus and take them to the max' potential. Maybe, once you become rich and gain experience, you can afford to take venomous handling classes, maybe even get licensed or permits.

We've already been there....to no avail.
http://www.zoochat.com/1812/zoo-begin-441940/index2.html

A month-long externship is a start, but depending on what you actually did, usually nothing to write home about.

And @Nikola: it's "my [opinion]", not "mine" - like in "MY pipe dreams" or "I should rather focus on applying for the funding of MY PhD thesis than waste my time online entertaining others with MY antics". Your spelling and grammar is getting worse, and I don't think you can blame the stars for that.

The monotony you mention @jayjds2 is actually one of the drawbacks of the "stamp collection"-style of zoo presentation. Unless you're a taxonomy fan (or a zoochat rare species geek), you'll soon find yourself exhausted after rows and rows of similar looking exhibits, and stop paying attention. Modern presentation forms, however, aren't perfect either; their increasing standardization makes new exhibit complexes and enclosures look like dull clones, copycatted from one another, while the "green space" actually takes away space that could have benefited animals or staff.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

And @Nikola: it's "my [opinion]", not "mine" - like in "MY pipe dreams" or "I should rather focus on applying for the funding of MY PhD thesis than waste my time online entertaining others with MY antics". Your spelling and grammar is getting worse, and I don't think you can blame the stars for that

Yes Batto, the aplications can be submitted starting from September 15th till November 15th. First I must find study programme by myself from German universities. I have a big chance to get granted for Doctorial studies particularly if the study programme is from rarer divisions (like veterinary medicine or more specialized - for zoo animals, medicine or welfare/bechavioral enrichment - but must find such). I can be granted from 750 to 1,000 euros/month for the whole doctorial study period (max. 3.5 years). I must be accepted by a university and by a mentor for the thesis (with official confirmation), to get scholarship, after contact with university for proposed PhD thesis. If I get the doctorial scholarship (I will know the results in April next year), I can start with the studies in October next year after application. By the way I must submit severeal documents incudind Doctorial thesis - with detailed plan for place and time frame for conducting of research, among other documents. I will try from September 15th. You can help me if in your institution a simmilar research- doctorial studies can be conducted. (I call on this page: DAAD Skopje: ????????? ??????/???????????? ??????? )

My English, I think will be satisfactory, thanks for correcting. (Germans can more easily learn English because German is more simmilar with English (same Germanic language family), than Macedonian (most simmilar with Bulgarian and Serbian) (who is Slavic language with Cyrilic letter), appart from better education system in Germany.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

The delegation of space for visitor experience is very important. Visitors will soon grow tired of a display if it only offers exhibit after exhibit after exhibit. In outdoor complexes for (for example) large mammals, there will often be space between two large exhibits, that is normally filled by a scenic pond, foliage, or the like. This is referred to as "green space" and is important in preserving a good experience for your visitors. The same concept would apply (though on a lesser and differentiated scale) to a reptile house, or any indoor exhibit, really. It may not be plants but something to break up the monotony is healthy. Behind the scenes, in a strict breeding operation, the only people who will see the area would be staff, so this wouldn't be necessary.

Thank you jayjds2, I agree completely.

 

[Batto]

TMI, mate, TMI...and in no way relevant. Furthermore, I'd prefer you'd stop trying to pry and make (incorrect) assumptions about my nationality. If someone doesn't want to share personal information (unlike you), you'd better accept that. And stop finding excuses-just improve yourself.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

TMI, mate, TMI...and in no way relevant. Furthermore, I'd prefer you'd stop trying to pry and make (incorrect) assumptions about my nationality. If someone doesn't want to share personal information (unlike you), you'd better accept that. And stop finding excuses-just improve yourself.

Ok Batto sorry.

I don't know what TMI would mean? first association - TimeMindIntrovert

 

[jayjds2]

Ok Batto sorry.

I don't know what TMI would mean? first association - TimeMindIntrovert

Too much information.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

It's very interesting, as climate in Brazil allows keeping snakes in outdoor enclosures. These one enclosures should be the ones of very few in the World, housing snakes outdoor. (?)

This is entirely incorrect; just off the top of my head I can think of several European collections I have visited which display snakes in outdoor exhibits!

West Midland Safari Park
Wildpark Schwarze-Berge
Wilhelma Stuttgart
Alpenzoo Innsbruck
Zoo Augsburg

I can also think of a good few more in the UK alone which I have not visited as yet:

British Wildlife Centre
Wildwood
New Forest Reptile Centre
New Forest Wildlife Park

One of my favorites are the outdoor vivaria at the Alpenzoo Innsbruck.

I love them too I really have to get cracking with the rest of my Alpenzoo Innsbruck review, as I am rather looking forward to writing about this display!

You can't neglect that bigger enclosure is better for snakes.

There's at least one snake species - the name eludes me at the moment, but it's a common one in European collections and I am certain Batto will know which one I mean - which fares very badly indeed in large enclosures, as they don't feel safe outside small, tight and thickly vegetated environments.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

This is entirely incorrect; just off the top of my head I can think of several European collections I have visited which display snakes in outdoor exhibits!

West Midland Safari Park
Wildpark Schwarze-Berge
Wilhelma Stuttgart
Alpenzoo Innsbruck
Zoo Augsburg

I can also think of a good few more in the UK alone which I have not visited as yet:

British Wildlife Centre
Wildwood
New Forest Reptile Centre
New Forest Wildlife Park

But these zoos should only keep native British (European) snakes outdoor? Or I am wrong again?
And Brazilian institute certainly keeps them outdoor all year-round?

 

[Batto]

There's at least one snake species - the name eludes me at the moment, but it's a common one in European collections and I am certain Batto will know which one I mean - which fares very badly indeed in large enclosures, as they don't feel safe outside small, tight and thickly vegetated environments.

TLD is absolutely right, and I might even extend on that: in many if not most snake species, juvenile specimens do much better in "smallish" enclosures. That doesn't mean that you have to keep them in tiny "shoeboxes" all their life, but it's certainly a practical contradiction to Nikola's sweeping declaration.

Why "should" they keep only native snakes outdoors, @Nikola?

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

Why "should" they keep only native snakes outdoors, @Nikola?

Because of the climate Batto, as it will not allow keeping subtropical/tropical reptiles, lets say outdoor in the warmest 2 months in the year (15 June - 15 August?), including the nights.

Maybe first we should define more closely what outdoor keeping would mean - letting snakes outdoor all day - 24 h, or gather them indoor durring nights? Hence I supposed that those European zoos keep outdoor only native reptiles (wich are used to colder temperatures). Tropical species should not be kept at temperatures lower than 17-18 deg C, in more than 7-10 h/24 h, it not so?

When I initially mentioned outdoor for Brazilian Butantan Institute, I meant outdoor - all year round.

 

[Batto]

@Nikola: The second part of your first sentence actually explained why "should" is redundant in this context. You CAN keep some non-native reptiles outdoors in the UK if the weather is adequate - some better (and longer) than others. A few "exotic" reptile species from seasonal non-European habitats (for example several northern Thamnophis species) can even be kept outdoors all year round in most European climates. As for tropical reptiles: there are a few European zoos in the warmer parts of Europe that can keep them outdoors for even longer periods of time.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Maybe first we should define more closely what outdoor keeping would mean - letting snakes outdoor all day - 24 h, or gather them indoor durring nights?

Or - and here is a revolutionary thought - one could even allow them access to burrows, log-piles or under areas of rotting vegetation where they could shelter at night, and during the coldest and/or wettest points in the year This would mean the reptiles and amphibians could remain outside all day without keepers having to gather them indoors at night.

You could call this hypothetical concept something like a "hibernaculum"!

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

Or - and here is a revolutionary thought - one could even allow them access to burrows, log-piles or under areas of rotting vegetation where they could shelter at night, and during the coldest and/or wettest points in the year This would mean the reptiles and amphibians could remain outside all day without keepers having to gather them indoors at night.

You could call this hypothetical concept something like a "hibernaculum"!

Indeed interesting, TLD, but very unlikely to be ever implemented.


I am wondering what is the best way to gather a (venomous) snake from outdoor enclosure - by net catcher or some other tool, and at the same time to be least stressfull for the snake, and to be safe for the handler (of venomous snake)? Batto should know this perfectly.

 

[Batto]

Indeed interesting, TLD, but very unlikely to be ever implemented.

It’s actually a common feature in naturalistic outdoor vivaria.

You know nothing, Nikola Snow, eh, Chavkosk...

 

[TeaLovingDave]

It’s actually a common feature in naturalistic outdoor vivaria

Quite; if I were not on my tablet right now, I'd attach photographs of the exhibits at Wilhelma, Alpenzoo, Augsburg and Schwartze-Berge.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

It’s actually a common feature in naturalistic outdoor vivaria.

You know nothing, Nikola Snow, eh, Chavkosk...

Quite; if I were not on my tablet right now, I'd attach photographs of the exhibits at Wilhelma, Alpenzoo, Augsburg and Schwartze-Berge which Nikola finds so unlikely

Certainly I don't know a lot ... I had not traveled enough in the Continent, nor read a lot about snake vivaria, ...

I love to point out, crucial, picant things from different aspects

 

[Batto]

To negate prematurely the existence of actually existing husbandry elements is neither crucial nor picant...
Getting snakes out or into outdoor terraria is pretty much the same as indoors and can include snake hooks and tongs.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

Getting snakes out or into outdoor terraria is pretty much the same as indoors and can include snake hooks and tongs.

Thank you Batto.

You might not be interested, but tomorrow is the most difficult day (tense, depressing and with a lot of (electro)magnetic influence - confusing for brain), from a 12-day serie-cyclic repeating , - the day of the SNAKE, many things can go out of control. Day of reflections and sharp tongue. I would never work (if ever) directly with venomous snakes on such day (except in urgent and inevitable situations, with great caution). Everyone can feel the difference, tomorrow. Even after 00:30 the special energy can be felt. - in Australia, among some other countries, it already began.

 

[Gulo gulo]

Indeed interesting, TLD, but very unlikely to be ever implemented.


I am wondering what is the best way to gather a (venomous) snake from outdoor enclosure - by net catcher or some other tool, and at the same time to be least stressfull for the snake, and to be safe for the handler (of venomous snake)? Batto should know this perfectly.

A net? That would be a sure way to harm the animal(s) and yourself. You can't make assumptions off learning from wiki, other websites or even books. You need real, actual experience working with animals. For their safety. I don't know where or who would teach you. Maybe Darth Sidious or Voldemort, at this point. You can read, learn, if you will, but will never know how to work with such species. Why do you feel the need to work with such animals? I would say that they're dangerous, but in this case, you're more dangerous to them and the surroundings. You could be dumb and go find a venomous snake for sale or even one in the wild. But that's just a darwin award for the rest of us.

 

[Nikola Chavkosk]

A net? That would be a sure way to harm the animal(s) and yourself. You can't make assumptions off learning from wiki, other websites or even books. You need real, actual experience working with animals. For their safety. I don't know where or who would teach you. Maybe Darth Sidious or Voldemort, at this point. You can read, learn, if you will, but will never know how to work with such species. Why do you feel the need to work with such animals? I would say that they're dangerous, but in this case, you're more dangerous to them and the surroundings. You could be dumb and go find a venomous snake for sale or even one in the wild. But that's just a darwin award for the rest of us.

Actually I have some experience in a zoo, in the last Spring.

Maybe I will call Batto, as expert or experienced stuff, if that's needed, and of corse if Batto accept (we are both in Europe).