I suspect it was due to Flamingoland having a closed season when filming could be done and the fact that Brighton Aquarium was open to the public all year round.
A UK Collection applies for Dolphins
- Thread starter Cat-Man
- Start date
I suspect it was due to Flamingoland having a closed season when filming could be done and the fact that Brighton Aquarium was open to the public all year round.
sealion
Well-Known Member
I see. Well you would have thought they might have wanted the publicity-i guess they still got it really because of the "dolphins in brighton" theme.
that's lovely footage isn't it! I can't find any videos or photos of the brighton dolphins, which is rather annoying.
i guess "into the blue" would have some, I have yet to check amazon, but I doubt it will be there.on topic of the thread: you've been saying that they wouldn't be able to train the dolphins due to public attitudes, but have dolphins ever been kept in captivity and not been trained? (except possibly the ones at seaworld's aquatica-can anyone confirm this?) it seems to be a necessity with keeping dolphins.
I see. Well you would have thought they might have wanted the publicity-i guess they still got it really because of the "dolphins in brighton" theme.
that's lovely footage isn't it! I can't find any videos or photos of the brighton dolphins, which is rather annoying.
on topic of the thread: you've been saying that they wouldn't be able to train the dolphins due to public attitudes, but have dolphins ever been kept in captivity and not been trained? (except possibly the ones at seaworld's aquatica-can anyone confirm this?) it seems to be a necessity with keeping dolphins.
I have an old guide book from Brighton so plan to scan some of the photos from there. I may set-up a page on my marine animal web site regarding UK dolphinaria, there seems to be an interest in this.
RE: dolphin training. Ironically most zoos train there animals to some degree. Husbandry training has become very popular. Ironically the techniques are directly from dolphin training from people such as Karen Pryor. Her book is an excellent account of how to train with positive reinforcement.
[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Shoot-Dog-Teaching-Training/dp/1860542387]Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training: Amazon.co.uk: Karen Pryor: Books[/ame]
My dissertation I did for my degree also outlines training:
Does the Carrot Need the Stick? Are aversive stimuli an obligatory component in the training and maintaining of behaviours in animals?
I was told that some years ago Seaworld used my paper as a priminer for new staff on behaviour modifaction which was rather nice
sealion
Well-Known Member
I have an old guide book from Brighton so plan to scan some of the photos from there. I may set-up a page on my marine animal web site regarding UK dolphinaria, there seems to be an interest in this.
RE: dolphin training. Ironically most zoos train there animals to some degree. Husbandry training has become very popular. Ironically the techniques are directly from dolphin training from people such as Karen Pryor. Her book is an excellent account of how to train with positive reinforcement.
Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training: Amazon.co.uk: Karen Pryor: Books
My dissertation I did for my degree also outlines training:
Does the Carrot Need the Stick? Are aversive stimuli an obligatory component in the training and maintaining of behaviours in animals?
I was told that some years ago Seaworld used my paper as a priminer for new staff on behaviour modifaction which was rather nice
Some photos would be lovely, there is hardly any trace of the dolphins on the web at all!
As for the UK dolphinarium, I don't think they would have dolphins without training them, which would give the ant-dolphinaria people lots to shout about. Why is it that there is hardly any fuss about keeping and training sealions in the UK? they may live on land some of the time, but they certainly are, clever etc...
I guess the reason why people object to dolphins so much is that actually seeing the water shows exactly how much space they have, like if you were to colour in all the air inside a monkey's enclosure. aswell as their intelligence, the size of their habitat and often barreness is far more obvious.
that's nice for your thesis! what degree did u do john? marine bio? zoology? animal behaviour?
sealion
Well-Known Member
Hi Mark,
I didn't know that there was on on oxford street! where was it? I'm guessing it was an indoor one. I don't have anything at the moment, but I can do a bit of googling, sorry. Very intriging..unless it was one of john's variety show things?
sealion
Well-Known Member
I found this:
"Perhaps one of the most sordid examples of dolphin exploitation was the brain-child of Pleasurama, now one of Robinson's partners in Spain, but then lead by Sir Harmar Nicholls, MP. Pleasurama's London Dolphinarium, at 65 Oxford Street, opened its doors to the public in 1971, as an up-market striptease revue featuring dancing "aquamaids" and several dolphins confined to a tank 3m deep, 14m long and 5m wide. In his book Doctor in the Zoo, David Taylor writes that the male dolphins had to be treated with anti-androgens to prevent them making passionate advances to the mermaid showgirls. Unlike the Moulin Rouge's similar revue, which spanned 14 years, the London Dolphinarium was never a great financial success for Pleasurama and it closed its doors in 1973. Always the optimist, Klinowska reports that "an experimental lecture and demonstration service for schools" also took place here, but presumably without the aquamaids. Writing in the magazine Animals, journalist Nigel Sitwell declared that he was "shocked" by what he saw and heard at the dolphinarium's opening gala night, eagerly attended by striptease and circus voyeurs, fellow politicians of the chairman, investors and Pleasurama share-holders. "The nadir of my evening was when Sir Harmar Nicholls, MP, chairman of Pleasurama Ltd, announced that 'the sole object of Pleasurama Ltd is to make a profit for its shareholders'. This amazing remark was greeted with delighted cheers and applause. It does, of course, reflect a good conservative business principle - and in many business fields it is arguably quite acceptable. But not, I submit, when the business is keeping animals in captivity." Sitwell went on to deride the showbiz and glitz of the dolphinarium, its complete absence of any element of education, conservation, or scientific research, an observation as relevant then as it is today: "The standard of commentary at most of these shows is shockingly low, consisting almost entirely of pure corn. And I believe the surroundings are important too. In the case of the London Dolphinarium, one has to negotiate one's way past a battery of stalls selling an array of gimcrack souvenirs of the most spectacular vulgarity. The whole atmosphere smacks of blatant hucksterism - it is the land of the fast buck - and I think it is quite wrong to keep any animals, but dolphins in particular, in such undignified surroundings."
MARK
Well-Known Member
Yes it was an indoor one, From the outside it just looked like a shop front, if it was not for the large Dolphin pictures in the shop front windows I would of went right past it. Inside the door way was stairs leading down to the pool.
I could see a gate way at the rear of the pool that must have joined to another pool behind the main pool. The time frame must of been around 1971.
The show was just a normal Dolphin show and nothing more, I seem to remember them saying one of the trainers there (woman) was from a Australian marine park?.
sealion
Well-Known Member
Have you read my post above? it seems it must have been the Pleasurama's London Dolphinarium.
You have a good memory!
MARK
Well-Known Member
Yes I did read your post, cheers.
I also saw the killer whale at Windor Safari park years ago
kazmanatee
New Member
Indeed, the manatees were scheduled to be at the part in 2015 but due to complications in the initial planning stage this has now been pushed back to 2017... quite a while to go now!!!
In regards to manatees in Europe which I saw someone question this was discussed in a post last year
http://www.zoochat.com/113/zoo-parc-du-beaval-9772/
in addition to the zoos mentioned in the list, there are also manatees in berlin tiergarten - which I visited recently and it is a really nice site. (much nicer than the zoo at Beauval which I was quite upset by) The zoomarine in Portugal's website does not mention manatees, but I emailed and they have confirmed that they do indeed still have their manatee exhibit.
I hope this helps anyone who wishes to go and see manatees in Europe!!
(sorry again for steering the topic off course)
sealion
Well-Known Member
isn't one still inside? they alternate the shows between the sides don't they? the dolphins were in both parts of the pool right?
ollielloyd
Well-Known Member
I've been reading this...very interesting topic. At the end of the day, Dolphins left the UK not so much through force of activists but through new regulations that meant it was basically too expensive to keep dolphins anymore.
IF dolphins were brought back to the UK (I think it'd be a good idea), of course they would need a large pool, with naturalistic feautres, which nowadays is in all modern dolphin facilities in most countries (not Mexico, Japan etc) .
The facility I was most impressed with having been to numerous dolphin exhibits around the world was Sea World Australia. Giant naturallistic sandybottom lagoons - very deep (I swum with Sunny the dolphin in one of the back lagoons) - they are HUGE. I think they make up over 6 million gallons in total? Anyways the dolphins all appear very happy, and it is a beautiful natural setting. Small beaches everywhere, trees and rocks everywhere, all in the open - very beautiful, and the animals clearly love it!
I also think the UK needs a dolphin/whale rescue centre! If a facility was built, they should contruct a rehab area, as this would not only create great PR, but is also needed! I constantly read how vets simply euthanise stranded dolphins here in the UK, without even trying to rehab them. Very sad.
Of course, any dolphins brought to the UK would have to be captive born, or been in captivity a LONG time. If any were brought in it'd probably be from Europe or US, where regulations are slightly stricter than most countires. (US wont import wild caught dolphins before 1996 i think?)
A few companys in the UK (including Merlin Ent. that own Sea-Life Centres) own sister parks abroad with Dolphinariums, so the possibilty is out there. And of course, although the construction costs would be high, the fact the UK public havnt seen dolphins in a long time, and how I'd say most people living in the Uk wont see a wild dolphin - It'd be a huge draw and create a lot of £££££ short and long term!
IF dolphins were brought back to the UK (I think it'd be a good idea), of course they would need a large pool, with naturalistic feautres, which nowadays is in all modern dolphin facilities in most countries (not Mexico, Japan etc) .
The facility I was most impressed with having been to numerous dolphin exhibits around the world was Sea World Australia. Giant naturallistic sandybottom lagoons - very deep (I swum with Sunny the dolphin in one of the back lagoons) - they are HUGE. I think they make up over 6 million gallons in total? Anyways the dolphins all appear very happy, and it is a beautiful natural setting. Small beaches everywhere, trees and rocks everywhere, all in the open - very beautiful, and the animals clearly love it!
I also think the UK needs a dolphin/whale rescue centre! If a facility was built, they should contruct a rehab area, as this would not only create great PR, but is also needed! I constantly read how vets simply euthanise stranded dolphins here in the UK, without even trying to rehab them. Very sad.
Of course, any dolphins brought to the UK would have to be captive born, or been in captivity a LONG time. If any were brought in it'd probably be from Europe or US, where regulations are slightly stricter than most countires. (US wont import wild caught dolphins before 1996 i think?)
A few companys in the UK (including Merlin Ent. that own Sea-Life Centres) own sister parks abroad with Dolphinariums, so the possibilty is out there. And of course, although the construction costs would be high, the fact the UK public havnt seen dolphins in a long time, and how I'd say most people living in the Uk wont see a wild dolphin - It'd be a huge draw and create a lot of £££££ short and long term!
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
I don't think that dolphinaria are culturally acceptable anymore in the UK. Brighton Sealife Centre abandoned plans for seal/otter pools after a great deal of protest in 2005, I can't imagine the response to a dolphinarium, but keep your eye on Blackpool. If the sealion exhibit they build is completely out of this world, it could be their way of constructing a dolphin facility under cover.
I do think a rehabilitation centre or two would be an ideal and valuable way for the public to see and understand cetaceans, while connecting them with our own seas rather than watching them jump through hoops to some tinny southsea Island music.....
I do think a rehabilitation centre or two would be an ideal and valuable way for the public to see and understand cetaceans, while connecting them with our own seas rather than watching them jump through hoops to some tinny southsea Island music.....
ollielloyd
Well-Known Member
Definatly. The Blackpool Pool does look quite big as it is, not sure about depth. Its over 100 feet long, maybe 200ft judging by google earth. I think any displays with dolphins however would need to demonstrate the UK coast, and not focus on Flipper!
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
This pool is not deep enough,and the last I heard from somebody that should KNOW what is happening at Blackpool Dolphins WERE NOT JOINING the collection.
MARK
Well-Known Member
Lets face it, no Dolphinarium in the UK has ever been very big or a first class, most have been penny pinching in every way, Whipsnades water mammal house was tiny right from day one with four dolphins in very cramped conditions. The only way I could see Dolphins or even Orca's return to Uk collections is if a first class exhibit (like in San Deigo and other US major collections) were built and I can not ever see that happen in the Uk. Windor was one of the better places for Dolphins in the Uk but really not deep enough for them or the Orca they had, No wonder the Anti-Dolphin mobs such as PETA and others had such a field day in the Uk with the many sub standed exhibits there, it was just feeding them all the ammo they needed, it maybe to late now but unless they can get out of the "mind-set) of "small & cheap" is OK things will never change
