African Elephants in Europe 2021

Kifaru Bwana said:
The best move in the short run is moving bull Tembo from Colchester to WSMP.

It is unlikely in the current days of Corona blockade on international travel that and elephants would be moving up the Channel. So, just forget that phantasy from suddenly coming into being.

It is to be hoped that the Howletts elephant debacle will eventually see some of their younger elephant stock move to collections within the British Isles (to do something useful for elephant conservation in stead).
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While some African counties are culling elephants what good does this really do?. At the end of the day what is this really going to prove, As you stated a better option would be using them in a captive group lets hope the poachers are not waiting in line for them some day!
 
Hm, a most interesting move! I must admit, I'm a little disappointed Beeke Bergen didn't go for a bull that has proven out already, but in theory, Yambo should make for an excellent natural breeder considering the environment he grew up in.

I certainly hope this will stimulate Calimero to breed as well, he's definitely the more valuable of the two, but regardless, calves from any of the females will be nice at this point.
 
Hyak_II said:
Hm, a most interesting move! I must admit, I'm a little disappointed Beeke Bergen didn't go for a bull that has proven out already, but in theory, Yambo should make for an excellent natural breeder considering the environment he grew up in.

I certainly hope this will stimulate Calimero to breed as well, he's definitely the more valuable of the two, but regardless, calves from any of the females will be nice at this point.
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TBH: I do think Calimero is a non-starter behaviorally.

Given that Yambo has experience of a natural herd structure and continuous natural breeding that is a definite plus.

I wonder if Yambo has mated any cows in Cabarceno yet?
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
TBH: I do think Calimero is a non-starter behaviorally.

Given that Yambo has experience of a natural herd structure and continuous natural breeding that is a definite plus.

I wonder if Yambo has mated any cows in Cabarceno yet?
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He can't mate with any of Cabarceno's females because almost are his half sisters and nieces, and the herds other females are like his aunt's
 
Javier Iniguez said:
He can't mate with any of Cabarceno's females because almost are his half sisters and nieces, and the herds other females are like his aunt's
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I believe Yossi would like to challenge the notion that he "can't" :p

How is Cabarceno's herd managed? Do they have a separate bachelor group? I've heard that multiple bulls live together with cows there (I'm very curious to know how well that works if it's the case, and what issues/benefits may arise from it) but I really know nothing about them myself
 
csartie said:
I believe Yossi would like to challenge the notion that he "can't" :p

How is Cabarceno's herd managed? Do they have a separate bachelor group? I've heard that multiple bulls live together with cows there (I'm very curious to know how well that works if it's the case, and what issues/benefits may arise from it) but I really know nothing about them myself
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I do think that the way Cabarceno maintains their elephant herds is the future for breeding operations in zoos. Much like the same set ups with Asiatic elephants in Europe.
 
csartie said:
I believe Yossi would like to challenge the notion that he "can't" :p

How is Cabarceno's herd managed? Do they have a separate bachelor group? I've heard that multiple bulls live together with cows there (I'm very curious to know how well that works if it's the case, and what issues/benefits may arise from it) but I really know nothing about them myself
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Yossi, is the definition of sweet home alabama this bull mated with is mother, half sister, and his own daughters

Cabarceno's herd is managed in no contact expect during health checks ( they are worked in PC), both breeding bulls Jums and Jumar and the young Martin live with the matriarchal herd. And it works very well without any issues and having two bulls provides a very enriching social life
 
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Javier Iniguez said:
Cabarceno's herd is managed in no contact expect during health checks, both breeding bulls Jums and Jumar and the young Martin live with the matriarchal herd. And it works very well without any issues and having two bulls provides a very enriching social life
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That's fascinating and very surprising that no issues have come from the bulls being housed together with the cows!
 
Javier Iniguez said:
Yes, but the only downside is that you don't know which calf is sired from which bull.
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Surely they could do genetic testing? Or would the results be difficult to interpret due to the bulls being father and son? I'm not entirely sure how these things even work, lol.
 
csartie said:
Surely they could do genetic testing? Or would the results be difficult to interpret due to the bulls being father and son? I'm not entirely sure how these things even work, lol.
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I believe they do genetic testing, but it would be very difficult as unlike elephants in other European zoo, Cabarceno's elephants as I mentioned before live in no contact their behavior is similar to herds of wild elephants, they charge their keepers and to get their out onto their massive exibhit it is a very delicate process as they start with the least dominant individuals, until they reach Penny the herds matriarch. The reason for this process by starting with the least dominant individual and rasing up the ranks is because and ending with Penny is because she as matriarch she as the most authority and she has been known to keep the herd in their barn all day
 
Javier Iniguez said:
I believe they do genetic testing, but it would be very difficult as unlike elephants in other European zoo, Cabarceno's elephants as I mentioned before live in no contact their behavior is similar to herds of wild elephants, they charge their keepers and to get their out onto their massive exibhit it is a very delicate process as they start with the least dominant individuals, until they reach Penny the herds matriarch. The reason for this process by starting with the least dominant individual and rasing up the ranks is because and ending with Penny is because she as matriarch she as the most authority and she has been known to keep the herd in their barn all day
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how does that work if penny keeps them all in the barn? Separate stalls? Just curious.
 
The elephants in Cacarceno are trained in protected contact. So the keepers can take blood and urine samples.
 
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