I believe ramat gan has one unrelated African cow. Same age as Yossi’s mother or close. They haven’t bred Yossi in a long time because he attacked someone (person or another elephant? My info has been dated). But they have no problems with the inbreeding in Asians. It’s the country’s culture to marry within the family so they probably didn’t think much of it.
African Elephants in Europe 2021
- Thread starter Elephantelephant
- Start date
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Great video. I had never seen their barn. Just pics of their outdoor habitat. I am surprised on how small the stalls are. Hopefully the cows don’t deliver their calves in the stalls!
So people really think Howletts are going to do this? With the increased poaching and the government concern of this transfer.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
It would appear so
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@ZCChip I think Daimian Aspinall is shooting himself in the foot. Aspinall believes that he is supporting conservation,when in fact he is sending an herd of African Elephants to their death.I think Howeletts should keep their Elephant herd is it is one of the most successful in Europe.
If the herd is released I hope Aspinall proves us all wrong and that the herd lives.out a long and healthy life. Unusually I can see a reoourance of the fate that Djala's Family of Western Lowland Gorillas met.
A consolation is that Coco is being spared of the release. In my view Bioparc Valencia shold split their herd in half, with Coco being moved to Bioparc Valencia too breed with some cowes. I feel that the other Cowes should be relocated to West Midlands Safari Park, and introduced to Five. This way Jack\Tooth who is returning to WMSP could breed with Five and the Valencia Cowes.
Moving on from the topic of Coco and Howeletts,I think Jambo the young Bull currently at Bioparc Valencia should.move to Elephant.Eden at Noah's Ark Zoo Farm. At Bioparc Jambo has been held in seclusion for a few years. Whereas at Noah's be socialized with other bachelor Bulls. Moving forward I think Noah's could build a breeding herd around Jambo and some young Cowes. Another young Bull that I would like to move to Noah's Ark are Sutton at WMSP.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
African elephants in Europe that could be pregnant in my opinion could be
Tonga (Sire Tembo)
Sabie (Sire Tooth)
Numbi (Sire Tembo)
Sweni (Sire Tooth)
Matibi (Sire Pembe)
Kwanza (Sire Jack)
Csami (Sire Kibo)
Mongu (Sire Tembo)
Infinita (Sire either Jums or Junmar)
Brisa (Sire either Jums or Junmar)
Kenia (Sire either Jums or Junmar)
Jama (Sire Coco)
Jara (Sire Coco)
Uzuri (Sire Coco)
Etana (Sire Coco)
Manzi (Sire Coco)
Tonga (Sire Tembo)
Sabie (Sire Tooth)
Numbi (Sire Tembo)
Sweni (Sire Tooth)
Matibi (Sire Pembe)
Kwanza (Sire Jack)
Csami (Sire Kibo)
Mongu (Sire Tembo)
Infinita (Sire either Jums or Junmar)
Brisa (Sire either Jums or Junmar)
Kenia (Sire either Jums or Junmar)
Jama (Sire Coco)
Jara (Sire Coco)
Uzuri (Sire Coco)
Etana (Sire Coco)
Manzi (Sire Coco)
Cabarceno's elephant barn is getting a complete redesign thankfully, perhaps this will bring with it roomier spaces?
Unless of course they serve some purpose at their current size, maybe looking unfriendly to eyes of the ignorant such as myself but otherwise serving some beneficial purpose (elephant safety etc?). I don't want to assume without knowing, but they do seem extremely small relevant to the stalls in other barns I've seen.
The young elephant has been given a name: Bumi. This means 'life' in Swahili.
Cabarceno's elephant barn is getting a complete redesign thankfully, perhaps this will bring with it roomier spaces?
Unless of course they serve some purpose at their current size, maybe looking unfriendly to eyes of the ignorant such as myself but otherwise serving some beneficial purpose (elephant safety etc?). I don't want to assume without knowing, but they do seem extremely small relevant to the stalls in other barns I've seen.
maybe. I am more concerned about the safety of the keepers. The stall gates do not extend to the wall so how can they stop an elephant if it decides to turn around and charge?
the stalls are possibly small as they are only holding stalls so they can inspect the elephants? I am only speculating from seeing their behavior and understanding animal behavior.
Wonderful point, I had similar concerns watching videos of the barn (there seems to be very little other than chance and prediction keeping elephants from 'accessing' keepers if they were particularly determined to do so...) but I can't stress enough how little knowledge I have of elephant management.
Either way I'm sure these issues will be resolved in the redesign.Here's the current draft of the barn plans:
Elephant business Inc
Wonderful point, I had similar concerns watching videos of the barn (there seems to be very little other than chance and prediction keeping elephants from 'accessing' keepers if they were particularly determined to do so...) but I can't stress enough how little knowledge I have of elephant management.
Here's the current draft of the barn plans:
Elephant business Inc
Unfortunately I do not know a word on that draft! But I am betting if Allan roocroft helped them draft if it would have a large sand area with smaller stalls off the wing with a protected contact wall.
i don’t know much about elephant management either but I have been close to elephants and they are huge. And the vet in the video is right, people have to break up the herd mentality to mentally control the elephant.
The elephant barn in Cabarceno is horrible. It has been designed by someone who had zero knowledge of elephants. Its horrible.
The elephants do indeed spend the night in these small stables. I think they have two which are a little larger and those are used for pregnant females but once the next calf is due mom and baby have to share a small stall. Its a pretty horrible situation which should have been adressed years ago. I am so relieved that a redesign is now in the works.
The situation is also super dangerous for the keepers as mentioned above. I am surprised they allowed the procedure to let the elephants out to be captured on video. Its a miracle only one person has been killed there, seriously. The video shows it very well why.
The elephants do indeed spend the night in these small stables. I think they have two which are a little larger and those are used for pregnant females but once the next calf is due mom and baby have to share a small stall. Its a pretty horrible situation which should have been adressed years ago. I am so relieved that a redesign is now in the works.
The situation is also super dangerous for the keepers as mentioned above. I am surprised they allowed the procedure to let the elephants out to be captured on video. Its a miracle only one person has been killed there, seriously. The video shows it very well why.
Breaking the social bonds between elephants to control them is a mentality that has no place in modern elephant management. It destroys the welfare of the animals. Hearing someone responsible for captive elephants say something like that is horrible. And it’s not necessary either if you have the right facilities and management strategy. Thankfully Alan Roocroft is now there to teach them about modern elephant management.
From what can I read, this is somewhat of a translation I can make:
As I said in the Cabarceno thread, I'm incredibly glad the herd at the park will stop living in that hellhole of a "barn".
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Thank you for the translations!! Extremely helpful!
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Even though I speak Spanish I found it difficult to read due to the small size thank you
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Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Yambo has now met the cows Log In or Sign Up to View
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Great news ! It's funny to see him with his orange skin between all of the cows of Beekse Bergen with a darker skin. Is the color of the skin related to the substrate ?