Is that the entirety of the lion exhibit? Looks tiny!60. Elephant Odyssey
San Diego Zoo, CA
Opened: 2009
Size: 7 Acres (2.8 Hectares)
Inhabitants: African Elephant, Asian Elephant, African Lion, Jaguar, Baird’s Tapir, Capybara, Pronghorn, California Condor, Secretary Bird, several Rattlesnake species and more.
It’s not easy to take risks. When looking to design a new elephant complex, San Diego could easily have gone the route of other zoos and built a typical exhibit that wouldn't have stood out. They instead went with a completely sui generis idea; exhibiting living relatives of extinct species that lived in California during the Pleistocene era. This incredibly creative concept generated great excitement during its development, but as everyone in the zoo community knows by now the final product came out to be one of the most bizarre and controversial zoo exhibits of all time. There is no attempt at naturalism or immersion in any way, with the thematic elements of the complex consisting of a tar pit and various animal statues. For a zoo known for its lush tropical gardens, the exhibit is shockingly devoid of plant life, with steel and metal dominating the sandy landscape. The elephant complex itself is great functionally, including large pools, several acres of space and various enrichment devices, but is visually unappealing with artificial enrichment trees that are a terrible eyesore. A variety of South American species including Baird’s tapir, capybara and guanaco are featured adjacent to the elephants and while there were once plans to have them share the same space as the elephants to recreate a scene from Pleistocene California, that idea never materialized. At its opening the lion exhibit was already outdated and although it has improved since then, it’s still only average at best. The adjacent jaguar exhibit on the other hand is actually quite good with much better furnishings and great verticality. The real highlights of the area however are the small things. The streamside habitat for native herps is phenomenal, as are the spacious rattlesnake terrariums. The California condor aviary is also rather impressive. If things were handled differently this complex could have come out much better with what we have today, but everyone should see it in person to form a verdict themselves, as it seems like no two opinions of this exhibit are the same.
@twilighter
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@DelacoursLangur
@Moebelle
@twilighter
@geomorph
1. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #1
2. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #2
3. African Lion Exhibit
4. Jaguar Exhibit
5. Baird's Tapir, Capybara and Guanaco Exhibit
6. Pronghorn and Dromedary Camel Exhibit
7. California Condor Aviary
8. Tar Pit Display
Similar Exhibits: None
America's 100 Must See Exhibits
- Thread starter pachyderm pro
- Start date
I was expecting EO to make the list. It’s certainly not one of America’s 100 best exhibits, but the unique concept and noteriety on this site makes it a no-brainer must-see exhibit imo.60. Elephant Odyssey
San Diego Zoo, CA
Opened: 2009
Size: 7 Acres (2.8 Hectares)
Inhabitants: African Elephant, Asian Elephant, African Lion, Jaguar, Baird’s Tapir, Capybara, Pronghorn, California Condor, Secretary Bird, several Rattlesnake species and more.
It’s not easy to take risks. When looking to design a new elephant complex, San Diego could easily have gone the route of other zoos and built a typical exhibit that wouldn't have stood out. They instead went with a completely sui generis idea; exhibiting living relatives of extinct species that lived in California during the Pleistocene era. This incredibly creative concept generated great excitement during its development, but as everyone in the zoo community knows by now the final product came out to be one of the most bizarre and controversial zoo exhibits of all time. There is no attempt at naturalism or immersion in any way, with the thematic elements of the complex consisting of a tar pit and various animal statues. For a zoo known for its lush tropical gardens, the exhibit is shockingly devoid of plant life, with steel and metal dominating the sandy landscape. The elephant complex itself is great functionally, including large pools, several acres of space and various enrichment devices, but is visually unappealing with artificial enrichment trees that are a terrible eyesore. A variety of South American species including Baird’s tapir, capybara and guanaco are featured adjacent to the elephants and while there were once plans to have them share the same space as the elephants to recreate a scene from Pleistocene California, that idea never materialized. At its opening the lion exhibit was already outdated and although it has improved since then, it’s still only average at best. The adjacent jaguar exhibit on the other hand is actually quite good with much better furnishings and great verticality. The real highlights of the area however are the small things. The streamside habitat for native herps is phenomenal, as are the spacious rattlesnake terrariums. The California condor aviary is also rather impressive. If things were handled differently this complex could have come out much better with what we have today, but everyone should see it in person to form a verdict themselves, as it seems like no two opinions of this exhibit are the same.
@twilighter
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@DelacoursLangur
@Moebelle
@twilighter
@geomorph
1. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #1
2. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #2
3. African Lion Exhibit
4. Jaguar Exhibit
5. Baird's Tapir, Capybara and Guanaco Exhibit
6. Pronghorn and Dromedary Camel Exhibit
7. California Condor Aviary
8. Tar Pit Display
Similar Exhibits: None
I haven’t really seen anyone complain about EO as an idea, and I think most people would agree that it’s a very cool concept for an exhibit. It’s really just the execution that’s the problem.
Hooo boy.
IN ELEPHANT ODYSSEY'S DEFENSE.... there are several factors to this exhibit that I personally reckon make it a much better exhibit experience than from first glance.
First off, it is a genuinely unique concept that hasn't been tried before and may not ever be tried again, at least in this context. While I do wish the zoo stuck to its original plans of mixing their guanaco, tapir, capybara, camel and pronghorn with their elephants, I still think the way they pulled it off (sans the utilitarian holding facility design) is still remarkable.
Second, I saw this exhibit space when it first opened and more recently in 2017. MAN, has it grown in or what? I like how the northern and southern portions of the zoo showcase the zoo's extremely diverse plant collection, and Elephant Odyssey actually was a perfect way to branch out and showcase xerophytic plants in an exciting and dynamic way. All the palms and desert plants have truly blossomed in a way that makes Elephant Odyssey actually feel like a fine wine. An unconventional mango wine, but one that tastes just as good (and arguably better) than your typical wine.
Finally, the amount of effort they put into their animals' husbandry is unparalleled. The rattlesnakes have a solarium. The condors have ample room to fly. The lion exhibit... as much as the design sucks at first glance, not only do the lions have access to the roof of their enclosure, this exhibit space was designed for geriatric lions or surplus lions. I do think they *could* get away with building a brand new lion space near Urban Jungle utilizing the old grottoes to make a Tiger River-esque space for the lions (WITH A MOAT to boot) and maybe display some native raptors on the roof/give the jaguars more space, but whatever. In the here and now, it's not nearly as bad as people say it is.
Now for the elephants. The zoo's elephant enrichment program is (for all intents and purposes) absolutely unparalleled. They don't have to change up the log structures or enrichment as frequently as they do, but... they do! This is the kind of zoo that invests in a snow machine for their polar bears and is adding substrate left and right to Polar Bear Plunge. If they go this far with their polar bears and went as far as they did with geriatric lions, you'd conclude they'd do the same with their elephants.
Overall, Elephant Odyssey as is is a damn good exhibit space. Couple tweaks here and there architecturewise and interpretivewise, along with a new habitat space for lions and it's perfect. But as is, goes to show that innovation is certainly not stuck in a tar pit for 12,000 years.
IN ELEPHANT ODYSSEY'S DEFENSE.... there are several factors to this exhibit that I personally reckon make it a much better exhibit experience than from first glance.
First off, it is a genuinely unique concept that hasn't been tried before and may not ever be tried again, at least in this context. While I do wish the zoo stuck to its original plans of mixing their guanaco, tapir, capybara, camel and pronghorn with their elephants, I still think the way they pulled it off (sans the utilitarian holding facility design) is still remarkable.
Second, I saw this exhibit space when it first opened and more recently in 2017. MAN, has it grown in or what? I like how the northern and southern portions of the zoo showcase the zoo's extremely diverse plant collection, and Elephant Odyssey actually was a perfect way to branch out and showcase xerophytic plants in an exciting and dynamic way. All the palms and desert plants have truly blossomed in a way that makes Elephant Odyssey actually feel like a fine wine. An unconventional mango wine, but one that tastes just as good (and arguably better) than your typical wine.
Finally, the amount of effort they put into their animals' husbandry is unparalleled. The rattlesnakes have a solarium. The condors have ample room to fly. The lion exhibit... as much as the design sucks at first glance, not only do the lions have access to the roof of their enclosure, this exhibit space was designed for geriatric lions or surplus lions. I do think they *could* get away with building a brand new lion space near Urban Jungle utilizing the old grottoes to make a Tiger River-esque space for the lions (WITH A MOAT to boot) and maybe display some native raptors on the roof/give the jaguars more space, but whatever. In the here and now, it's not nearly as bad as people say it is.
Now for the elephants. The zoo's elephant enrichment program is (for all intents and purposes) absolutely unparalleled. They don't have to change up the log structures or enrichment as frequently as they do, but... they do! This is the kind of zoo that invests in a snow machine for their polar bears and is adding substrate left and right to Polar Bear Plunge. If they go this far with their polar bears and went as far as they did with geriatric lions, you'd conclude they'd do the same with their elephants.
Overall, Elephant Odyssey as is is a damn good exhibit space. Couple tweaks here and there architecturewise and interpretivewise, along with a new habitat space for lions and it's perfect. But as is, goes to show that innovation is certainly not stuck in a tar pit for 12,000 years.
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Elephant Odyssey definitely belongs on the list, without a shadow of a doubt. The concept is fantastic, there are some terrific elements to the complex, but of course several more contentious areas. I'm personally not much of a fan, although there's nothing else out there in the zoo world that's similar and that's why it's clearly a must-see exhibit.
The good (condors, rattlesnakes, herps) contrasts the bad (lions, 'utilitrees', horses).
There's quite a lot of interpretative material that is scattered throughout the zone, including cool signs:
Elephant radio collars:
The famous tar pit (with tar that moves up and down):
These 3 displays highlight the changes in a rodent's nest in different time periods:
A Giant Sloth statue:
American Lion:
But there's also a lot of ugly metal and functional enclosures that sharply contrast the lushness of the 'Lost Jungle' section on the other side of the zoo. Elephant Odyssey is dry and arid.
Loads of metal in the Elephant Barn:
Lots of ugliness here:
A mish-mash of styles for Guanacos, Capybaras and Baird's Tapirs:
More ugliness (for domestic horses and donkeys over the years):
The good (condors, rattlesnakes, herps) contrasts the bad (lions, 'utilitrees', horses).
There's quite a lot of interpretative material that is scattered throughout the zone, including cool signs:
Elephant radio collars:
The famous tar pit (with tar that moves up and down):
These 3 displays highlight the changes in a rodent's nest in different time periods:
A Giant Sloth statue:
American Lion:
But there's also a lot of ugly metal and functional enclosures that sharply contrast the lushness of the 'Lost Jungle' section on the other side of the zoo. Elephant Odyssey is dry and arid.
Loads of metal in the Elephant Barn:
Lots of ugliness here:
A mish-mash of styles for Guanacos, Capybaras and Baird's Tapirs:
More ugliness (for domestic horses and donkeys over the years):
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Corangurilla
Well-Known Member
Finally! Somebody put it into words! I was a little shocked when I heard about all the Elephant Odyssey slander on this site, so I kinda forced myself to criticize it to “challenge my views” or something. But then I asked myself, “What was the first zoo exhibit I was ever truly hyped for?”, “Which zoo exhibit sort-of kickstarted my prehistoric megafauna hyperfixation?” “What was that really cool flash game that I was obsessed with an advertisement for?” The answer for all 3 is Elephant Odyssey, baby!
Maybe I’m biased (ok, I’m definitely biased), but I love
Elephant Odyssey. It may not be the prettiest thing ever, and I can understand the frustration of it replacing rare hoofstock, but it’s so unique and important to me, so yeah, it’s a must-see.
Pleistocene891
Well-Known Member
A unique idea, but not great execution.
The lion exhibit is one of the smallest in any AZA zoos with little naturalism. It's worse than what most people say.
What enrichment does San Diego do for their elephants that other zoos don't? The elephant exhibit is a dusty bowl and doesn't do anything for conservation as the elephants are all past their breeding age. While the total area is a decent size, I'm not sure if they elephants have access to all yards at the same time. If they do have access to all at once, then this argument of mine is irrelevant.
The small dusty exhibit for pronghorns and camels, the small jaguar exhibit, and the dry dusty exhibit for tropical species like Capybaras and Baird's Tapirs say hello.
While this is certainly an opinion, I genuinely believe that if Elephant Odyssey were at any other zoo, no one would argue it as a "must see" exhibit. But because it's at the "World Famous San Diego Zoo", it must be "must see" for it's "innovation" as if the execution of an exhibit isn't vastly more important than the idea.
And why is this a bad thing? Elephants past their breeding age need good homes too, and zoos have much more of an impact as institutions of conservation education and as a way to garner support for in-situ conservation efforts. These goals can be met regardless of whether any breeding occurs. Not every animal in a zoo needs to be in a breeding situation, and in fact if every zoo in the country was trying to breed everything in their collection, a lot of the SSPs would be much worse off than they are now. We need zoos to be keeping bachelor groups, to be providing retirement homes for geriatric animals, and otherwise providing good homes to animals that for whatever reason aren't being bred.
Personally, I think it's the complete opposite of this. Since San Diego has such a high reputation, I think a lot of people hold it to a higher standard than they hold other zoos, meaning that some exhibits at San Diego (and the other famous mega-zoos) get criticized harshly for exhibits that would not be criticized (or not criticized nearly as much) at a zoo that doesn't have the reputation. I highly doubt that there would be as much criticism of Elephant Odyssey if the exhibit was at a smaller zoo with a smaller budget and lesser reputation.
Pleistocene891
Well-Known Member
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think some exhibits from San Diego get overrated by some people trying to justify its "World Famous" status.
That hasn't really been my experience on this site for the past 8 years. Most of San Diego's lauded exhibits actually *are* quite good. Meanwhile, EO elicits mixed and polarized feelings from people - and that's frequently reflected on the forum as well, including the last page or two of this thread.
I fail to see how an exhibit is "must-see" at one zoo but not another. If it's unique or innovative or memorable enough to be on a list like this, what difference does it make if it's at San Diego or a small-town zoo in North Dakota?
Others have said this already, but the general consensus is that quality and execution are not the only factors being considered here. Even if you end up not liking EO, it's still worth visiting to see for yourself.
As someone who’s seen EO probably more times with exception of local So-Cal Zoochatters, I think it has aged better with time. Routinely I find myself going through EO during each visit, seeing how some of the exhibits have changed. As mentioned before, many of the enrichment items for the elephants are moved around more often and will see the bachelor herd or older cows making use of them. I do agree with many that the lion exhibit is very much smaller than one would want to see. It has changed through the years, more climbing structure and foliage around. Personally, would like to see cheetahs or mountain lions in this area after some modifications to fit their needs. Seeing the vegetation grow in through the years certainly has helped, such using arid plant life along the walkways or allowing trees to mature for the Jaguar exhibit that now can use as part of their climbing or shade. I know it’s not without criticisms but I do also see how it’s unique and I do enjoy visiting every time I can60. Elephant Odyssey
San Diego Zoo, CA
Opened: 2009
Size: 7 Acres (2.8 Hectares)
Inhabitants: African Elephant, Asian Elephant, African Lion, Jaguar, Baird’s Tapir, Capybara, Pronghorn, California Condor, Secretary Bird, several Rattlesnake species and more.
It’s not easy to take risks. When looking to design a new elephant complex, San Diego could easily have gone the route of other zoos and built a typical exhibit that wouldn't have stood out. They instead went with a completely sui generis idea; exhibiting living relatives of extinct species that lived in California during the Pleistocene era. This incredibly creative concept generated great excitement during its development, but as everyone in the zoo community knows by now the final product came out to be one of the most bizarre and controversial zoo exhibits of all time. There is no attempt at naturalism or immersion in any way, with the thematic elements of the complex consisting of a tar pit and various animal statues. For a zoo known for its lush tropical gardens, the exhibit is shockingly devoid of plant life, with steel and metal dominating the sandy landscape. The elephant complex itself is great functionally, including large pools, several acres of space and various enrichment devices, but is visually unappealing with artificial enrichment trees that are a terrible eyesore. A variety of South American species including Baird’s tapir, capybara and guanaco are featured adjacent to the elephants and while there were once plans to have them share the same space as the elephants to recreate a scene from Pleistocene California, that idea never materialized. At its opening the lion exhibit was already outdated and although it has improved since then, it’s still only average at best. The adjacent jaguar exhibit on the other hand is actually quite good with much better furnishings and great verticality. The real highlights of the area however are the small things. The streamside habitat for native herps is phenomenal, as are the spacious rattlesnake terrariums. The California condor aviary is also rather impressive. If things were handled differently this complex could have come out much better with what we have today, but everyone should see it in person to form a verdict themselves, as it seems like no two opinions of this exhibit are the same.
@twilighter
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@DelacoursLangur
@Moebelle
@twilighter
@geomorph
1. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #1
2. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #2
3. African Lion Exhibit
4. Jaguar Exhibit
5. Baird's Tapir, Capybara and Guanaco Exhibit
6. Pronghorn and Dromedary Camel Exhibit
7. California Condor Aviary
8. Tar Pit Display
Similar Exhibits: None
Agree to disagree given how much it's grown.
Yeah - that's kinda the point for geriatric lions. You want to optimize the space as much as possible. I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm merely providing a basis as to why San Diego designed it the way they did.
San Diego has an entire department for enrichment design, situated below the elephant barn. They change out the logs, ropes, puzzle feeders and other enrichment devices within the habitat on a daily basis, providing frequent foraging/training opportunities for the elephants as well separate from those enrichment devices. They also rotate their geriatric pair with their bachelor pair, so they do have access to all the yards/holding spaces at different times throughout the day.
Jaguars I'll give a little leeway given the size of the pool and the height of the enclosure. Pronghorn and camel... I'm not gonna be complacent about exhibit design but at the same time how much do they *really* need. Both live in arid environments, and given how well that gels into the idea of Elephant Odyssey, you can kinda put two and two together. I get what you're saying about the tapir and capybara, but again - Southern California, 12,000 years ago.
Hard disagree, mate. Hell, if this was built somewhere like Los Angeles or any other context other than Southern California (Minnesota Zoo'd be a good example because mammoths + mastodons lived at the 45th parallel), I reckon it'd be celebrated just as much. Granted there are different design philosophies and this is going into muddy speculative territory, but I'm just glad San Diego went with a genuinely radical idea for an exhibit like this and executed it as well as it did. It's got its problems, but if anything it kinda adds to the charm of this exhibit. I'd rather take an Elephant Odyssey over an African Savanna/ruined Asian temple (Fresno gets a pass because of their collaborating with the Khmer community + genuine eye for authenticity) any day of the week.
How geriatric are these lions? I visited San Diego in 2010 and was shocked at how small the lion enclosure was. Are the same lions still there, or do they just keep replacing geriatric lions with more geriatric lions as they die off?
They started with geriatric lions, but now have a surplus pair in that space. I'd personally like to see a new lion space akin to Tiger River/the Hamadryas baboon space in Africa Rocks within Asian Passage near Urban Jungle, as the zoo always talks about how "it began with a roar" and currently have their lions in a very underwhelming space.
60. Elephant Odyssey
San Diego Zoo, CA
Opened: 2009
Size: 7 Acres (2.8 Hectares)
Inhabitants: African Elephant, Asian Elephant, African Lion, Jaguar, Baird’s Tapir, Capybara, Pronghorn, California Condor, Secretary Bird, several Rattlesnake species and more.
It’s not easy to take risks. When looking to design a new elephant complex, San Diego could easily have gone the route of other zoos and built a typical exhibit that wouldn't have stood out. They instead went with a completely sui generis idea; exhibiting living relatives of extinct species that lived in California during the Pleistocene era. This incredibly creative concept generated great excitement during its development, but as everyone in the zoo community knows by now the final product came out to be one of the most bizarre and controversial zoo exhibits of all time. There is no attempt at naturalism or immersion in any way, with the thematic elements of the complex consisting of a tar pit and various animal statues. For a zoo known for its lush tropical gardens, the exhibit is shockingly devoid of plant life, with steel and metal dominating the sandy landscape. The elephant complex itself is great functionally, including large pools, several acres of space and various enrichment devices, but is visually unappealing with artificial enrichment trees that are a terrible eyesore. A variety of South American species including Baird’s tapir, capybara and guanaco are featured adjacent to the elephants and while there were once plans to have them share the same space as the elephants to recreate a scene from Pleistocene California, that idea never materialized. At its opening the lion exhibit was already outdated and although it has improved since then, it’s still only average at best. The adjacent jaguar exhibit on the other hand is actually quite good with much better furnishings and great verticality. The real highlights of the area however are the small things. The streamside habitat for native herps is phenomenal, as are the spacious rattlesnake terrariums. The California condor aviary is also rather impressive. If things were handled differently this complex could have come out much better with what we have today, but everyone should see it in person to form a verdict themselves, as it seems like no two opinions of this exhibit are the same.
@twilighter
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@Moebelle
@DelacoursLangur
@Moebelle
@twilighter
@geomorph
1. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #1
2. African/Asian Elephant Exhibit #2
3. African Lion Exhibit
4. Jaguar Exhibit
5. Baird's Tapir, Capybara and Guanaco Exhibit
6. Pronghorn and Dromedary Camel Exhibit
7. California Condor Aviary
8. Tar Pit Display
Similar Exhibits: None
I told you guys it's going to be here. Definitely among the most unique complex to be here, even if it's not necessarily the best one at that.
Well we have the likes of Indianapolis Zoo with IOC, so I definitely do not think the location of the zoo matters either way. Place this on any other zoo it'll look the same, plus I really like the theming of Pleistocene California.
No(sic); only according to your personal standard. As defined by Hediger (1942), there are more points to be aware of.
Hediger, Heini (1942). Wildtiere in Gefangenschaft. Basel: Benno Schwabe & Co.
Pleistocene891
Well-Known Member
Haven't the standards and views of zoos also dramatically changed since 1942?
While there have been suggestions to shift the priotisation, the general fundamental principles and observations by Prof. Heidiger are still valid to this day. You might want to read them.
- Hediger, Heini (1955). Studies of the psychology and behaviour of captive animals in zoos and circuses. London: Butterworths Scientific Publications.
- Hediger, Heini (1964). Wild Animals in Captivity. Dover Publications.
- Hediger, Heini (1969). Man and Animal in the Zoo. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul.
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Hmm.
I didn’t love Elephant Odyssey when I saw it in 2015, and I can’t honestly say it doesn’t detract, rather than add to the memory of San Diego (almost) 8 years later. It’s a broadly okay complex at a zoo that historically hasn’t and shouldn’t aim for broadly okay. The concept itself is interesting but the execution isn’t, and the result is that EO is the zoo exhibit equivalent of being the worst house on the best street in America.
I didn’t love Elephant Odyssey when I saw it in 2015, and I can’t honestly say it doesn’t detract, rather than add to the memory of San Diego (almost) 8 years later. It’s a broadly okay complex at a zoo that historically hasn’t and shouldn’t aim for broadly okay. The concept itself is interesting but the execution isn’t, and the result is that EO is the zoo exhibit equivalent of being the worst house on the best street in America.
I love the concept of EO and don't hate the exhibit. That said, it kind of feels like a dust bowl in one of most lushly planted zoos in the country.
I love the idea of a real life La Brea Tar Pits concept just for creative and educational purposes. It's ambitious, and as such hard to stick the landing on in practice.
The cat exhibits are bad, which had been beaten like a dead horse. Speaking of horses, I'm a snob that hates domesticates in zoo exhibits. Sorry not sorry. I hate the horse/donkey inclusion on principle. It doesn't hurt that the enclosure they are in also happens to be awful.
It really seems like SD had several animals that didn't fit into a zoogeographic box, so they reached a bit for a concept. Again, it was good creative thinking, but didn't quite hit the mark.
I have no problem with it being must see.
I love the idea of a real life La Brea Tar Pits concept just for creative and educational purposes. It's ambitious, and as such hard to stick the landing on in practice.
The cat exhibits are bad, which had been beaten like a dead horse. Speaking of horses, I'm a snob that hates domesticates in zoo exhibits. Sorry not sorry. I hate the horse/donkey inclusion on principle. It doesn't hurt that the enclosure they are in also happens to be awful.
It really seems like SD had several animals that didn't fit into a zoogeographic box, so they reached a bit for a concept. Again, it was good creative thinking, but didn't quite hit the mark.
I have no problem with it being must see.