Animals from Tipperary.

phoenix said:
****, if i'd known that it was that easy and that she was there for the taking i'd have happily gone and caught her and brought her back myself.

someone better get prosecuted over this...
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Had my colleagues and I implemented Plan A - we would have been the ones being prosecuted!! Crazy world that we live in. With the benefit of hindsight, I now wish that we had implemented Plan A and damn the consequences.

Before advocating prosecution for anyone else, let's wait until the professionals get here with their side of the story. There are enough of them checking out this forum for us to get an informed viewpoint any day now.
 
I am sure their legal representatives and public relations people are busy writing up a well worded reply blaming everyone but their organisation. Looking forward to read what they have to say on the matter.
 
phoenix said:
i don't think we will hear anything.

the story barely made it to melbourne.
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Which is why in a way I would like for the RSPCA, Greens et al to get involved. This is, to me a legitimate case for their interest, not the made up scandles that Ms Lee has used in the past.
 
jay said:
Which is why in a way I would like for the RSPCA, Greens et al to get involved. This is, to me a legitimate case for their interest, not the made up scandles that Ms Lee has used in the past.
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Ms Lee is to busy with supporting her drug dealing son. After trying to stop police using sniffer dogs to catch drug users she claimed that police would be better going after drug dealers. Now they have and it is her son.

Greens MP's son accused of drug deals

November 19, 2009
THE eldest son of the Greens MP Lee Rhiannon has been charged with drug dealing after he was allegedly found with more than $290,000 worth of cannabis during a police raid of his Bondi Junction apartment.

Rory O'Gorman, 31, did not appear at Waverley Local Court yesterday to face charges of possessing more than eight kilograms of the drug as well as $127,465 in cash, which police allege were the proceeds of crime. He is also charged with supplying the drug.

A teary Ms Rhiannon told the Herald she would stand by her son during what was a distressing time for her family.

''I love my son and he has my support,'' she said.
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so what's happnend to the other animals? anyone know somewhere for some good readin'? I read something about hunting ground purchasing a lot of them, including the oryx.. which I found odd.
 
ZYBen said:
Endangered Tipperary animals sold to NT safari hunting park | National News | News.com.au

News article including a statement from ARAZPA
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It should be noted that the man currently housing the animals from tipperary was, although a game hunting ranch, in the past not intending to hunt any of these endangered animals until he had a sustainable population. In fact he was more interested in swapping animals with ARAZPA than selling them. He wanted to diversify the genetics of his herd.
 
Jarkari said:
It should be noted that the man currently housing the animals from tipperary was, although a game hunting ranch, in the past not intending to hunt any of these endangered animals until he had a sustainable population. In fact he was more interested in swapping animals with ARAZPA than selling them. He wanted to diversify the genetics of his herd.
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Jarkari - in the interests of accuracy it should be stated that Mary River is STILL a game hunting ranch. Despite that fact, as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no reason to doubt that the breeding animals of the species that went there will not be nurtured for generations into the future. In his own way, Mr Gleeson will "manage" the species!

I think you will also find that it is not entirely correct to say that Mr Gleeson is interested in co-operating with ARAZPA.
 
Steve Robinson said:
Jarkari - in the interests of accuracy it should be stated that Mary River is STILL a game hunting ranch. Despite that fact, as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no reason to doubt that the breeding animals of the species that went there will not be nurtured for generations into the future. In his own way, Mr Gleeson will "manage" the species!

I think you will also find that it is not entirely correct to say that Mr Gleeson is interested in co-operating with ARAZPA.
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From what I have read Mr Gleeson has spent a lot of his own money looking after these animals and should have the ability to get a return from excess older males. The best way to garentee the future of this species in Australia is to allow the hunting of those older males.

A source, who did not wish to be identified, said the rest of the animals, not including any of an endangered species, were destroyed.

"Otherwise they just would have been left there (at Tipperary) to starve to death," the source told AAP.

Kevin Gleeson, the owner of Mary River Australian Safaris, said he was able to save some of the animals by buying them.

"I feel personally that most people turned their backs on the animals," he told AAP.

Mr Gleeson said the scimitar horned oryx herd had doubled in size since being transferred to his property, about 300km south of Darwin, and that none had been taken as trophies to date.

"I've got to be able to afford to feed and keep that animal, so sustainability is the key.

"Let me get those animals to a breeding stage where I have surplus, and then we will allow the hunters to take the surplus - the older animals who are no longer breeding - and then I can maintain the herd forever.

"If you want to help an animal species survive today you've got to give it a value."

He said hunters were known conservationists.

"If you've got an endangered animal and you haven't got any management in place for that animal - then, yes, it is criminal to shoot it."
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Monty said:
The best way to garentee the future of this species in Australia is to allow the hunting of those older males.
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no - the best way to to guarantee the future of this species in australia is for all animals to remain part of a high-intensive breeding program. allowing surplus animals to be culled is no different from castration - a practice we all condemn the zoos over - as we know its leaves the breeding program with little or no backup in the event of an unexpected death.

whilst personally, im pleased in knowing that being a hunting ranch, and looking for surplus - this place will be breeding as many antelope as possible (like zoos should be doing with bongo) - what concerns me is that valuable genetics will be lost in the hunting process.
 
phoenix said:
no - the best way to to guarantee the future of this species in australia is for all animals to remain part of a high-intensive breeding program. allowing surplus animals to be culled is no different from castration - a practice we all condemn the zoos over - as we know its leaves the breeding program with little or no backup in the event of an unexpected death.

whilst personally, im pleased in knowing that being a hunting ranch, and looking for surplus - this place will be breeding as many antelope as possible (like zoos should be doing with bongo) - what concerns me is that valuable genetics will be lost in the hunting process.
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Not that long ago i saw a documentary about a breeding/hunting station in South Africa. This man was breeding an incredible stock of antilopes, and let his surplus/elderly males get hunted to sustain himself and his operations. He was very emotional about his animals (specially when faced with the above criticism) and did everything he could to ensure a genetic and individually healthy population.

This turned my view about these farms around quite a bit. His animals looked better then most I've ever seen, every specimen was in tip top shape and he made absolutely sure they where.

If this station in australia looks anything like that one (and sofar it sounds good) then i'm not worried at all about genetic diversity, and loosing a few spare males for the breeding program. They'll always secure a few spare males just in case and they'll allow a country like Australia to support a decent number of animals to sustain a healthy population. I'm not so sceptical and/or critical about these kinds of farms anymore...
 
Steve Robinson said:
Jarkari - in the interests of accuracy it should be stated that Mary River is STILL a game hunting ranch. Despite that fact, as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is no reason to doubt that the breeding animals of the species that went there will not be nurtured for generations into the future. In his own way, Mr Gleeson will "manage" the species!

I think you will also find that it is not entirely correct to say that Mr Gleeson is interested in co-operating with ARAZPA.
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Sorry Steve, I mean Mr Gleeson WAS interested in exchanging animals with ARAZPA. Right at the beginning of this whole saga.

Some issues arose and I believe but am not sure, that he now has limited interest in working with ARAZPA

And when I said "was, although a game hunting ranch, in the past not intending to hunt any of these endangered animals"

I did not mean to suggest he was no longer a game hunting ranch rather that in the past he did not intend to hunt the healthy breeding animals. "Was" was meant to say I am unsure of his current position with regards to hunting these animals.

For the recored, I can't see an issue with him charging people to hunt elderly animals past breeding age.
 
phoenix said:
no - the best way to to guarantee the future of this species in australia is for all animals to remain part of a high-intensive breeding program. allowing surplus animals to be culled is no different from castration - a practice we all condemn the zoos over - as we know its leaves the breeding program with little or no backup in the event of an unexpected death.

whilst personally, im pleased in knowing that being a hunting ranch, and looking for surplus - this place will be breeding as many antelope as possible (like zoos should be doing with bongo) - what concerns me is that valuable genetics will be lost in the hunting process.
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I was just reading another topic and found the following quote by MRJ
ARAZPA has been at the forefront of promoting the need to build sustainable populations in our zoos, pointing out over the last decade that many exotic species are genetically doomed, while most native species rely on wild imports to remain viable. Zoos admit the problem, but are slow to provide the places. Who can blame them? Nobody wants to hold large numbers of animals off limits - it is a heavy overhead. Yet it is becoming increasingly difficult to import animals, or to obtain them from the wild.
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Isn't this what places such as the Mary River property want. Places such as this want large numbers freely breeding in as natural as possable situation.
 
ZooPro - now that you are back, would you please give us the official industry position on this whole sorry saga?

Not just on the outcome but on the whole process that resulted in her being abandoned in the first place.

Thanks.
 
If you want an "industry position", why don't you contact the institutions involved and ask for it. Surely that would be the way to obtain a more informative answer? I'm not working in the industry at the moment, so not in a position to comment.

I don't see the institutions involved, nor the regional association regularly posting updates on this forum, and to be honest, I doubt they will.
 
ZooPro said:
If you want an "industry position", why don't you contact the institutions involved and ask for it. Surely that would be the way to obtain a more informative answer? I'm not working in the industry at the moment, so not in a position to comment.

I don't see the institutions involved, nor the regional association regularly posting updates on this forum, and to be honest, I doubt they will.
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Sorry - I was not aware that you are no longer with us. Industry wise that is!

As you have been a very effective industry spokesman in the past and, as you were back on line on a forum where this matter has been debated, and viewed, by a heck of a lot of people it seemed logical to ask you.

In the past ARAZPA certainly has seen fit to make known it's position on some issues through this forum - as have some zoos.
 
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