Borth Animalarium Animals o be removed from Borth Animalarium!

[adrian1963]

I hope they take time to think before rushing into the refurbishment of the zoo.
This could be a great small zoo, do you know if they are going to extend the zoo onto the 10 acres of land that is spare at the moment if so then there is a great scope to improve.


Will be watching with interest and paying a visit in 2 years when I visit Wales

 

[Gentle Giant]

It is unlikely animals are to be removed from Borth zoo. A10's have been applied for and will be arriving shortly. I believe there was missunderstanding on legislation on behalf of the old owners and new owners. If it wernt for Borth the leopard would have been shot in the head as it was rescued from a dog travel cage from someones house.
There are developments in planning for the zoo. They have recently taken on a young wildlife conservationist and zoologist who has been working with the owners and staff on new or extended exhibits. The leopard enclosure will be extended to 3 times the size of the original enclosure and will be African themed. There are other plans including a new, old world monkey exhibit, for vervets and patas monkeys. also in mind are Australian and Amazonian exhibits including a large walkthrough marmoset enclosure. The new guy is also looking next season to open a new free flight bird show including some of his own free flying birds brought to the zoo. The name 'Animalarium' is also on the cards to be dropped in place for the much cleaner 'Borth Zoo'. After the paperwork fiasco I feel it is good the zoo is turning a corner and foccusing on new education programes and improved exhibits.

Is this zoo still on the market or has it sold yet?

 

[johnstoni]

If it wernt for Borth the leopard would have been shot in the head as it was rescued from a dog travel cage from someones house.

Really? Do you know that for a fact? I would expect vets to euthanase any large carnivore more humanely than that. If you just meant that it would be put down, I understand, but I would be very surprised if even the previous owners at Borth would allow that. Also, I don't think the animal would be more likely to be put to sleep because it was once rescued - it doesn't make sense to me.

 

[johnstoni]

This could be a great small zoo, do you know if they are going to extend the zoo onto the 10 acres of land that is spare at the moment if so then there is a great scope to improve.

Am I right in thinking there are a spare ten acres which currently form a lechwe paddock?

 

[RowanGreen]

Really? Do you know that for a fact? I would expect vets to euthanase any large carnivore more humanely than that. If you just meant that it would be put down, I understand, but I would be very surprised if even the previous owners at Borth would allow that. Also, I don't think the animal would be more likely to be put to sleep because it was once rescued - it doesn't make sense to me.

I think the previous poster was saying it would have been shot before coming to Borth if they had not been able to offer it a place, not saying it was kept in a carrier at Borth. I have no idea if this is true.

As to the humane issue, what's so bad about shooting as a method of euthanasia? You do realise that the usual method of euthanasia for pet animals is by an injection into the vein? Which requires close and personal handling of the animal? To do that with a wild animal you'd need to sedate it first, which means darting (being shot in other words...) with drugs that take 15-20 minutes to act. A quick well aimed shot is going to be much more humane in many cases.

 

[johnstoni]

Ah yes I was misreading the incorrect spelling to be 'went from' rather than 'wern't for'. Thank you for pointing that out.

As with darting for sedation, in terms of shooting to kill there is no guarantee that a single shot will hit the right part of the animal, or that the animal will die instantly. The same process carried out with a sedative will only risk giving the animal an insufficient dose if it goes wrong. Therefore I remain convinced that shooting an animal is less humane due to the potential for error and the consequences that can produce. Domestic animals are different, they are handleable and I agree in some cases that holding down a domestic animal to administer a lethal injection is not really more humane. But we were talking in this instance about a leopard.

Happily though, it is being posted that the best outcome is planned for this animal. I am hopeful that the site has been bought and that it prospers.

 

[creatureteacher]

The Leopard and Ocleot were originally from Esmond Gay's private collection a few years ago

 

[Bele]

I am very pleased to hear some positive news coming from Borth . I think changing the name to Borth Zoo would make sense .

 

[jacks zoo]

Am i only the only one who is a little confused here

It was stated in this thread (and i was led believe by conservoclocks posts) that borth had new owners. Yet in another thread It has been confirmed (by conservoclock) that there are actually not new owners just a new keeper!

The place is actually still on the market

 

[Gentle Giant]

Am i only the only one who is a little confused here

It was stated in this thread (and i was led believe by conservoclocks posts) that borth had new owners. Yet in another thread It has been confirmed (by conservoclock) that there are actually not new owners just a new keeper!

The place is actually still on the market

Me too. Thanks for the clarification.

I noticed all Conservoclocks posts are deleted, so I wonder if he/she was telling the truth!

 

[adrian1963]

Was Conservoclocks someone who worked there and have they been told not to communicate with this site
As we know some animals collections have asked? staff not to communicate with this site.

 

[Javan Rhino]

Was Conservoclocks someone who worked there and have they been told not to communicate with this site
As we know some animals collections have asked? staff not to communicate with this site.

I thought about that. I know some collections don't approve, but I think it is a little harsh. I do think that staff should be careful about what they post about the particular collection, but what about commenting on other collections? Seems unfair to effectively 'ban' them.

 

[Maguari]

As I have siad, stop pointing and start helping.

I'm afraid I don't hold with the idea that people shouldn't be allowed to criticise if they're not helping to fix the problems - for the majority geography and personal finance will preclude this - that doesn't deny them the right to express an opinion.

If you see somthing you know to be factually incorrect, then you can correct it. If you see an opinion you disagree with, explain why. But dont; dismiss everyone's opinions as you do here:

I no longer wish to part take in forum style communication as there are too many kids behind computers as well as wanna be zoo pros who recon they are zoo experts. I realise the animalarium needs a hell of a lot of work and money but there are ways to do things.

I have seen people before stop using the site because they get annoyed by all the misinformation about their local zoo. But if there's misinformation on here, we need someone who knows the zoo well who can put people right when they're wrong. Forums work through discussion and sharing of information.

I would also contest your suggestion that anyone who knows a bit about zoos is a 'wannabe zoo pro'. The majority on here are just enthusiastic amateurs - zoo enthusiasts, just as you get fans of trains, planes, TV shows, whatever. It's a hobby. It is to be expected that some on here are more knowledgeable than others, some more opinionated, some more naive. That's the way of the world - and it's what makes any discussion arena an interesting place.

Please hang around for a bit, get a feel of how the place works. It's not so bad, really.

 

[Maguari]

Whilst this is true and you put it so well. Do you realise that Zoo curators, directors, head of sections and even keepers don't look at zoo chat, most don't know it exisits and don't read the comments that 'zoo amateurs' are writting.

I think you'd be surprised - most zoo staff I have spoken to are very much aware of ZooChat. Doesn't mean they'll pay any notice to what's said, of course (nor indeed should they, necessarily).

If you want to help improve an exhibit then write to the zoo. Don't get on your soap box on a forum that no one will see apart from other 'zoo amateurs' that in turn will also do nothing about it, apart from get on their own soap box.

The simple fact is that ZooChat doesn't exist to change zoos per se, it exists to discuss them. We'd all like to see improvements to exhibits we don't like, but that's not what this site is really for. It's about chatting with friends about our hobby.

I will stay but I wont be retaliating to anything regarding the animalarium. When I first saw the animalarium I thought the same as most, but when you go there and talk to the owners and interact with the animals, you realise they are doing the best they can with what they have.

Glad to hear you're sticking around. The future sounds a lot more positive at Borth than it has for a long time so hopefully they'll do well.

 

[johnstoni]

Whilst this is true and you put it so well. Do you realise that Zoo curators, directors, head of sections and even keepers don't look at zoo chat, most don't know it exisits and don't read the comments that 'zoo amateurs' are writting.

- you haven't been around long enough to know this isn't true, so I understand why you'd think this, but this is not the case at all.

If you want to help improve an exhibit then write to the zoo. Don't get on your soap box on a forum that no one will see apart from other 'zoo amateurs' that in turn will also do nothing about it, apart from get on their own soap box. Its just an endless cycle of arguments. This isnt my local zoo either Its one I have been looking into after recent events. Thats about it really.

- then you have to be careful, as you've come to represent the zoo in recent posts. I thought you'd said at one point you were a volunteer, has that changed?

I will stay but I wont be retaliating to anything regarding the animalarium. When I first saw the animalarium I thought the same as most, but when you go there and talk to the owners and interact with the animals, you realise they are doing the best they can with what they have.

- Wanton cruelty is very rare, you'll find most people who rescue animals are well-meaning. At first you said the place was under new management, and now you've clarified that the owners are the same but there are new staff who are supporting plans to improve some of the enclosures. This is fantastic news and thank you for bringing this to peoples' attention.

 

[Pertinax]

I no longer wish to part take in forum style communication as there are too many kids behind computers as well as wanna be zoo pros who recon they are zoo experts.

I'd just like to point out that there are also a lot of older members on this site, some of whom have been involved with zoos professionally in the past.

 

[Gentle Giant]

I thought about that. I know some collections don't approve, but I think it is a little harsh. I do think that staff should be careful about what they post about the particular collection, but what about commenting on other collections? Seems unfair to effectively 'ban' them.

Really what depends on the conditions of employment, whether the staff or volunteer have the employment contract. If they breach a confidentiality agreement, they should be given a discipline.

Information cannot be classed as confidential if it is already in the public domain. In some cases limited confidentiality may arise when only a certain section of the public knows of the information. The amount of information and the number of people that have knowledge of the information will be taken into account with disclosures disputes.

 

[Javan Rhino]

Really what depends on the conditions of employment, whether the staff or volunteer have the employment contract. If they breach a confidentiality agreement, they should be given a discipline.

Information cannot be classed as confidential if it is already in the public domain. In some cases limited confidentiality may arise when only a certain section of the public knows of the information. The amount of information and the number of people that have knowledge of the information will be taken into account with disclosures disputes.

Exactly, people with contracts ect (in my opinion, anyway) should be allowed on here providing they do not post confidential information. Anything else, such as photos, questions, reviews of other zoos or posting news that is public knowledge anyway, I don't see a problem with that. I know I for one would allow zoochat if I were a zoo-owner.

 

[Maguari]

3.Yes i have been around long enough, I have been visiting zoochat for years however have only joined as you dont need to be a member to view images or read posts, only to comment on them
4. read it back I said this IS true, not this isnt true, i was actually agreeing.

You did say that zoo staff didn't read the boards, and johnstoni was saying that that wasn't true (as evidenced by, for example, Tim Rowlands' ZooChat days at Chester, or bloodycurtus and Vini from Blackbrook), not contradicting your agreement.

Just crossed wires, I think!

 

[zoogiraffe]

You did say that zoo staff didn't read the boards, and johnstoni was saying that that wasn't true (as evidenced by, for example, Tim Rowlands' ZooChat days at Chester, or bloodycurtus and Vini from Blackbrook), not contradicting your agreement.

Just crossed wires, I think!

Are you forgetting nearly every member of the keeping staff at Belfast as well just to name another,plus a few people that post on here that if there zoo`s found out they did they would lose there job as its agains`t ther contract of employment!!