Apenheul Primate Park Apenheul Primate Park News
- Thread starter UntBwe
- Start date
Someone posted it back in August (above) so either no one noticed or it wasn't going to affect the move.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Very true,but this move was a bit more robust than the previous one,as he is very much going to be on-show here,while he would not have been with the other move!
Would I be right in thinking the original move was meant to be Chester? amd would I be right in saying "Taisha" was the one who revealed too much, too soon?
I may be misreading this, but are you really saying that we nerds on Zoochat have the power to stop the movements of animals just by mentioning them
It's not the first time, sadly. This is why when one is told something off-record or that has not been made public yet by a zoo it MUST stay off-record, and not be posted on the forums.
If the information which has not been made public is something you have spotted which is visible to the unwashed masses, and thus anyone could see - to use a fictional example, if you spotted that a melanistic chousingha had been born - it is usually okay to report on, but even then discretion is very much advisable. In the above situation, if you noticed that a second chousingha calf had been stillborn, this would be the sort of information it would be unhelpful to report upon.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
Yes that is indeed what I am saying,as TLD has said it isn't the first time it has happened and some how I doubt it will be the last time that it happens!I may be misreading this, but are you really saying that we nerds on Zoochat have the power to stop the movements of animals just by mentioning them
And you seriously suggest that members of zoochat are actually responsible?? First, I have a very hard time believing that a few zoo nerds discussing things on this board can actually stop a transfer. Second, if that`s really what happened for whatever reason, the only people responsible for that are those within zoos who LEAK the info - you know, if you don`t want anyone to know, DON`T TELL ANYONE.
Zoogiraffe, it is high time that you stop accusing members of zoochat for doing what this board was created for!
Zoogiraffe, it is high time that you stop accusing members of zoochat for doing what this board was created for!
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
@ Yassa believe what you want to believe,I know it has happened and so do a fair number of others that have attended the walk and talks at Chester.So as far as I am concerned thats my final word on it!
Perhaps I can shed some light on the situation?
I have two mails from Chester Zoo, one dated July 2011, and the other one July 2012.
Both say basically the same: They were asked several times to take Kevin and each time they had to refuse. The reasons were also mentioned.
I have two mails from Chester Zoo, one dated July 2011, and the other one July 2012.
Both say basically the same: They were asked several times to take Kevin and each time they had to refuse. The reasons were also mentioned.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Personally speaking, I am always very aware of the sensitivities of my local zoo when posting news that they haven't announced. But surely there's a difference between, for instance, a birth at a zoo and cancelling the move of an animal that has been planned for its wellbeing because it has become known
I just don't understand it - it's not as though it's a matter of national security. Perhaps someone can explain it to me.But surely there's a difference between, for instance, a birth at a zoo and cancelling the move of an animal that has been planned for its wellbeing because it has become known
I believe it is one particular, maybe unusual, incident which has sparked these comments, and it involved the movement of a species from one(or more) zoo to another which didn't already exhibit it. It wasn't cancelled just because it became known on Zoochat, but the fact it was revealed on here before all the parties involved were fully informed, meant that for other reasons, the move then didn't happen. From memory the species; AyeAye, and the receiving Zoo;Chester somehow come to mind.
Last edited:
It is wrong for someone to deliberately or maliciously post confidential information if they know that to be the case. But otherwise, responsibility must rest with the zoos concerned. It's the 21st century and information cannot be controlled like it could in the past.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Basically, if you want to keep something secret, you don't tell anyone!
Posting confiedntial information can do a lot of damage. Here is a scenario.
Imagine you are a keeper at zoo X and you read on a zoo forum that one (or more) of your animals is(are) moving to zoo Y. Understandably you are not very happy about this, so you go to have a word with your head-keeper about being kept in the dark.
The head-keeper is just as mystified as you are, and promises to take the matter up with the Curator.
The Curator does not know anything about the intended move and mutters something about 'no one ever tells me anything' as he goes to confront the director.
'Zoo Y?' The Director says, 'they've not mentioned it to me. However if that is how they conduct their business, they are out of luck. They don't get anything from Zoo X as long as I'm here.'
So, what can seem an innocent remark on the forum, may cause damage to the relationships between collections.
Imagine you are a keeper at zoo X and you read on a zoo forum that one (or more) of your animals is(are) moving to zoo Y. Understandably you are not very happy about this, so you go to have a word with your head-keeper about being kept in the dark.
The head-keeper is just as mystified as you are, and promises to take the matter up with the Curator.
The Curator does not know anything about the intended move and mutters something about 'no one ever tells me anything' as he goes to confront the director.
'Zoo Y?' The Director says, 'they've not mentioned it to me. However if that is how they conduct their business, they are out of luck. They don't get anything from Zoo X as long as I'm here.'
So, what can seem an innocent remark on the forum, may cause damage to the relationships between collections.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Thanks for this explanation. I appreciate that zoos have every right to to keep information confidential, and also have to be commercial. But I'd worry if this scenario was typical and politics were compromising animal management.
I may be naive, but I thought that zoos existed primarily for conservation rather than massaging the egos of whoever might be employed by them at any given time. Surely for an EAZA zoo participating in an EEP, the long-term wellbeing of an individual animal and its species is of paramount importance.
Is keeper X upset because an animal is moving or because s/he hasn't been told? Either way, if it's been recommended by the EEP, isn't that all that matters? As for Director X, maybe s/he's in the wrong job.
That said, I'm delighted that Kevin has finally moved to a wonderful zoo and will hopefully spread his genes, which are worth their weight in gold to the captive population (if they weighed anything
).Thank goodness it is not your decision / position to judge. I glad other esteemed poster show more sensitivity towards the subject matter and how zoos have to deal with animal exchanges/transfers on an individual basis.
Sadly, very few people actually realise what hard work and diplomacy is involved in animal husbandry and zoo management and allowing for animal transfers and exchange. Quite a lot of time can be expanded with paperwork and getting all parties on board and also the studbook keeper has a gigantic task on his book. I for one am glad your average zoo takes the matter very seriously.
Sadly, very few people actually realise what hard work and diplomacy is involved in animal husbandry and zoo management and allowing for animal transfers and exchange. Quite a lot of time can be expanded with paperwork and getting all parties on board and also the studbook keeper has a gigantic task on his book. I for one am glad your average zoo takes the matter very seriously.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
I have never worked in a zoo, or know anyone who does well enough for them to confide in me. So I am not guilty of insensitivity but of ignorance of what is involved in animal transfers, hence my earlier question. I have genuinely wondered why moves take so long to arrange (although I had heard about the vast amount of paperwork) and the suggestion that one would be aborted because news got out was bewildering to me.
I have always assumed that zoos worked cooperatively for the greater good, so my reaction to the attitude of bongorob's hypothetical Director was shock.
As you imply, very few people know exactly what is involved. If it was my job (and I can assure you that I will never be employed by a zoo), then obviously all the facts would be at my disposal and I would not need to make assumptions.
You may remember when a certain zoo first formed their bachelor Gorilla group, a curator was quoted publicly as saying something like' we have got this newly formed group of Gorillas together and that's how they are staying.' That is actually in direct contrast to the purpose of EEP bachelor groups- to house animals some of which may eventually transferred to other Zoos if needed for breeding. The statement was obviously merely a reflection of pride for what a zoo that had no previous experience with the species had achieved in getting them together, but I thought it was ill-judged at the time.
A few years later the attitude had changed and another publicity statement by the same person, accompanying the departure/arrival of males had changed tune rather, and now revealed that this was 'a dynamic group with animals arriving and leaving' in conjunction with EEP recommendations etc. In other words, they had in between, got over their initial attitude and accepted the real purpose of a bachelor group.
This is just an example as to how animals are often not willingly shared by zoos. Another was the move of Gorillas between Chessington/London and Paignton/Chessington. Despite studbook recommendations and having several female Gorillas on contraceptives to prevent overbreeding in an overcrowded enclosure, Chessington didn't want to part with even one of them to London.
Animal transfers can be a hugely complicated business with, in some cases much reticence on the part of some of the zoos involved.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Yes, your first example rings some bells. It's not just visitors who benefit from educational experiences. But maybe, after all, blissful ignorance is better for the former as far as some of these transfer tales are concerned
