Asian Elephants in Europe 2022

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think his early life is not clear due to lacking secure data. He certainly did not have the nicest zoo life with plenty of transports. When he came to Osnabrück he was heavily weaving and it was said that he was kept behind the scenes in England to avoid that people see it. He still did it in Osnabrück but they worked a lot with him and it improved significantly. From there I only heard positive things about him and his character. For sure is that he liked to play with young bulls and he showed incredible patience with them.
 
I wouldn’t blame Luka for killing the keepers. The husbandry was different during those times.
It sounds like he was stressed from not stimulated and aggressive hence the weaving.
 
Jambo said:
Yeah, he killed two keepers in the early 80's at Belgrade.

He was at Port Lympne for a decade (1997-2006); but I don't think he killed any keepers there. He did sire five calves, including a surviving daughter, May Tagu, who's mothered calves at Planckendael.
Click to expand...
May Tagu for now only has one Calve: Suki
 
Hyak_II said:
Faya at Rotterdam has given birth to a healthy calf! This is the first calf for both mom Faya and dad Fahim.

Of course though, it is another little bull :/ Bulls, bulls, and more bulls, is the recurring theme in Europe right now.
Click to expand...


Bulls bulls bulls. Bye bye bulls to USA and Australia. More bachelor herds.

I am glad that mom and son are doing well. I am looking forward to seeing the media.

Facebook link. Log into Facebook
 
I suppose Rotterdam will have to bring in another bull very soon as they have young cows and all of the calves are bulls. Timber is out.
 
Awful situation with the bulls...

By the way I analyzed the cow structures in the EEP. I might have missed the one or the other and did not count Russia in but for the future of keeping elephants it is really interesting:

Current Situation
97 singular cows beyond the breeding age (44 of them over 50 years old)
9 singular cows in the breeding age (one will drop 2023)
17 matrilines of 2 (one line will leave towards the US)
10 matrilinies of 3
2 matrilines of 4
1 matriline of 7 (ripped apart by sending two cows to the US)
1 matriline of 8

Potential situation if you merge matrilines that were ripped apart in the past
90 singular cows beyond the breeding age (43 of them over 50 years old)
5 singular cows in the breeding age (one to drop 2023)
16 matrilines of 2
12 matrilines of 3
4 matrilines of 4 (one to be ripped apart by sending two cows to the US)
1 matriline of 8
1 matriline of 10 (ripped apart by sending two cows to the US)

Means that we have about 40 potential breeding groups and thus for the future max 40 zoos who will be able to keep a herd after the old singular cows have died away. Many will certainly retire from keeping elephants when their old cows have died, a high number will take in small bachelor groups, but there will certainly also be some who want to keep and breed them but no animals will be available. Just to show the difficulty of the task - right now nobody knows where to put all the young bulls but for the future the base is narrow.
 
You should take into account that matrilines break with time. Adult sisters often fight and separate into smaller herds. But there is really much individual variability in elephants.

I am surprised that zoos don't want to house 1-2 males. It is an ideal situation for a zoo - have the popular elephant on display but use much less space and money than a whole herd. 25 years ago it was the opposite - every zoo wanted one elephant, but few wanted to breed them.
 
Jurek7 said:
You should take into account that matrilines break with time. Adult sisters often fight and separate into smaller herds. But there is really much individual variability in elephants.

I am surprised that zoos don't want to house 1-2 males. It is an ideal situation for a zoo - have the popular elephant on display but use much less space and money than a whole herd. 25 years ago it was the opposite - every zoo wanted one elephant, but few wanted to breed them.
Click to expand...

Asian herds rarely have more than six individuals, but we only have the one in Pairi Daiza and Dublin being larger. Of course, if a zoo watches tensions within a matriline you can take them out but otherwise it would be wrong to do that since the issues with non related cows usually are much bigger (and I don't think you will have issues in the tiny 2-4 cow lines)

In the future you will have zoos keeping not 1 but rather 2-3 males at those zoos that are keeping old cows right now. When they die the zoos will have to opt on stop keeping elephants or taking in bulls since cows won't be available for most.
 
Apparently Panang at Tierpark Hellabrunn is pregnant, according to the Elephant Database. Not sure how accurate that is as I haven't seen an official announcement from the zoo anywhere but I think there's a pretty good chance she's pregnant so I'll believe it. Hopefully this calf will survive unlike the rest of Panang's calves (and the majority of Gajendra's)!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gil
IndianRhino said:
Apparently Panang at Tierpark Hellabrunn is pregnant, according to the Elephant Database. Not sure how accurate that is as I haven't seen an official announcement from the zoo anywhere but I think there's a pretty good chance she's pregnant so I'll believe it. Hopefully this calf will survive unlike the rest of Panang's calves (and the majority of Gajendra's)!
Click to expand...

Ugh! I hope that’s inaccurate. I have an intuition that Panang’s calves doesn’t have the immune system to thrive. Two dead calves at birth and two calves dying young. Something is amiss.

does anyone know when shwe Zin is estimated to be due?
 
This wouldn't even make sense within Munich... Payang is 33, beyond what was called the breeding age, her matriline is in Zurich. Her genes are the same as Farha's. Then they have Mangala, 29, import from Asia without matriline - also beyond breeding age but younger than Payang and genetically more valuable...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gil
Pongo said:
This wouldn't even make sense within Munich... Payang is 33, beyond what was called the breeding age, her matriline is in Zurich. Her genes are the same as Farha's. Then they have Mangala, 29, import from Asia without matriline - also beyond breeding age but younger than Payang and genetically more valuable...
Click to expand...
Panang has had four calves before (all are deceased unfortunately) so she should still be reproductively viable, even if her last calf was born about a decade ago. Yes, she is Farha and Upali's full sister so she's relatively well represented through her brother and his offspring. Mangala, on the other hand, has not and most likely will never have any calves which is a pity considering, like you said, she's an imported cow with valuable genes. Munich's bull, Gajendra, is quite the valuable bull and is very underrepresented right now with all but 3 of his calves being deceased (and all of those are bulls) so it'd be great if he sires a healthy calf with Panang, preferably female.
 
IndianRhino said:
Apparently Panang at Tierpark Hellabrunn is pregnant, according to the Elephant Database. Not sure how accurate that is as I haven't seen an official announcement from the zoo anywhere but I think there's a pretty good chance she's pregnant so I'll believe it. Hopefully this calf will survive unlike the rest of Panang's calves (and the majority of Gajendra's)!
Click to expand...

I would trust that info to an extent. Panang last gave birth eleven years ago so it would be great if she's pregnant again. Despite her representation through her siblings, she's had no surviving calves to date, so it'd be good to get at least one surviving calf from her. It makes sense to attempt to get a calf from her (and Gajendra); especially as she (and Temi) are the only breeding females at Munich, and not breeding from her would leave Temi as Munich's only breeding female.
 
Pongo said:
Europe's oldest Asian elephant, Targa, has died in Augsburg at the age of 67.
Click to expand...
Oh no! This is really terrible. I really liked Targa, despite her age she was in very good physical condition until the end of her life. :(:(:(

Anne in Longleat should be the oldest now (about 65), but I think her age isn't exactly known. The next one should be Gulab in Prague, if I'm not mistaken. She is 63 and is also in very good physical condition.
 
Elephantelephant said:
Oh no! This is really terrible. I really liked Targa, despite her age she was in very good physical condition until the end of her life. :(:(:(

Anne in Longleat should be the oldest now (about 65), but I think her age isn't exactly known. The next one should be Gulab in Prague, if I'm not mistaken. She is 63 and is also in very good physical condition.
Click to expand...

Actually Augsburg was surprised by her death. They did not put her to sleep, it was a natural death.

Anne is not in the EEP - if the age really is as claimed she is even older than Targa but without being in the EEP there is no proof of her origin and she is not considered in the stats. If you count Israel as Europe - at least they are in the EEP - the oldest elephant now is Warda in Tel Aviv, born 1958, then Gulab 1959.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top