Australasian Asian Elephant Population 2022

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Yassa said:
You guys will be over the moon with this news:
Healthy female (!!!!) calf born to Dokoon

Melbourne Zoo announces birth of elephant in new herd
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A girl just as I predicted!!!:D:D:D

Wonderful news - especially for the future of the herd at Werribee as this calf will help with the growth of the herd over there.

Hopefully this calf won’t be the only girl- with girls to follow from both Num Oi and Mali.

The article also mentions the calf was born at 1.03 am which is the earliest birth in the region to date (at least to my knowledge).

0.1 Unnamed (16/11/2022) Luk Chai x Dokkoon
 
Jambo said:
A girl just as I predicted!!!:D:D:D

Wonderful news - especially for the future of the herd at Werribee as this calf will help with the growth of the herd over there.

Hopefully this calf won’t be the only girl- with girls to follow from both Num Oi and Mali.

The article also mentions the calf was born at 1.03 am which is the earliest birth in the region to date (at least to my knowledge).

0.1 Unnamed (16/11/2022) Luk Chai x Dokkoon
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My prediction of Dokkoon (F), Num Oi (F) and Mali (M) is holding up too :D. It is great news as it opens up a new matrilineal line too :)

The bad news is this diminishes Burma and Permai's chances of getting to Werribee. Perhaps Melbourne knew the calve's genders prior to their birth and a female-dominant cohort will reduce the need for more cows to balance the herd.
 
Zoofan15 said:
The article says: This was Dookkon’s third birth, and her second daughter after having Mali in 2010.

However it refers to the calf as “it’s” in every other context.
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Following a 22-month pregnancy, mother Dookkon gave birth to the female Asian elephant calf at 1.03 am on Wednesday.

The article clearly states that it’s a girl.
 
Yassa said:
Its great that this baby is a girl, but that are making predictions about the gender of unborn calves is ridiculous and makes reading this thread really hard at times.
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As the thread author I have no problem with this.

It’s not often we have an elephant birth - and to have three so close together is even more of a cause for celebration.
 
Swanson02 said:
My prediction of Dokkoon (F), Num Oi (F) and Mali (M) is holding up too :D. It is great news as it opens up a new matrilineal line too :)

The bad news is this diminishes Burma and Permai's chances of getting to Werribee. Perhaps Melbourne knew the calve's genders prior to their birth and a female-dominant cohort will reduce the need for more cows to balance the herd.
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I don’t think sex can be determined before birth it’s incredibly hard- once in a while they could but it’s very rare.
 
Swanson02 said:
My prediction of Dokkoon (F), Num Oi (F) and Mali (M) is holding up too :D. It is great news as it opens up a new matrilineal line too :)
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The interesting thing about Dokkoon having a second daughter is it’ll add structure to her family line. Having a matrilineal line is something of a novelty in the region, with Mali being the first of the first generation cows to breed, but now in the future, Werribee will have two (half) sisters breeding - just as they would in the wild. It’ll make for fascinating compare and contrast opportunities in mothering styles - as well as data.
Swanson02 said:
The bad news is this diminishes Burma and Permai's chances of getting to Werribee. Perhaps Melbourne knew the calve's genders prior to their birth and a female-dominant cohort will reduce the need for more cows to balance the herd.
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It does indeed diminish Permai and Burma’s chance of joining the Werribee herd. I was of the opinion only an all male cohort could possibly swing the balance in their favour.

In humans, gender of a foetus can be determined via a blood test. I don’t see why this wouldn’t be applicable to elephants given they have blood draws for EEHV and hormone analysis.
 
Zoofan15 said:
It does indeed diminish Permai and Burma’s chance of joining the Werribee herd. I was of the opinion only an all male cohort could possibly swing the balance in their favour.
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I guess 3 male calves mean that Werribee will need to reserve more space for a bachelor group of males. Taking in 2 adult females that very likely need to be kept seperated from the family group AND from each other if things go wrong is a very poor idea if you have many young males that need space away from the family.

The birth of more female calves could also lead to social disruption within the Melbourne herd, resulting in females (and their offspring) becoming incompartible. That has happened VERY often in European zoos as soon as the unrelated breeding females had more then 1-2 offspring. So I dont think the gender of the calves influences the decision about Burma and Permai. It is very likely that they would never become part of the family group.
 
Yassa said:
I guess 3 male calves mean that Werribee will need to reserve more space for a bachelor group of males. Taking in 2 adult females that very likely need to be kept seperated from the family group AND from each other if things go wrong is a very poor idea if you have many young males that need space away from the family.

The birth of more female calves could also lead to social disruption within the Melbourne herd, resulting in females (and their offspring) becoming incompartible. That has happened VERY often in European zoos as soon as the unrelated breeding females had more then 1-2 offspring. So I dont think the gender of the calves influences the decision about Burma and Permai. It is very likely that they would never become part of the family group.
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Those are some very good points. Ultimately I think Werribee taking on Burma and Permai would be a risk for little to no benefit other than helping out two other zoos who are in a situation partly of their own making.

Werribee have a cohesive herd, so why rock the boat.

The aim is for regular breeding and already they have the matriachal herd taking up one paddock with the bulls needing a paddock each within the next few years. Factor in the anticipated acquisition of Putra Mas and that only leaves three paddocks available to accommodate future bulls from this cohort or future cohorts.
 
ZCChip said:
Why not move Burma to Perth with Permai and move Putra Mas to a breeding facility?
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That'd be ideal as they could live out their retirement together.

Unfortunately both zoos have a strong commitment to phasing out elephants due to space reasons and pressure to phase elephants out of city zoos.

Both elephants will likely be sent to the USA in the next two years as I struggle to forsee any other option within Australasia.
 
Zoofan15 said:
That'd be ideal as they could live out their retirement together.

Unfortunately both zoos have a strong commitment to phasing out elephants due to space reasons and pressure to phase elephants out of city zoos.

Both elephants will likely be sent to the USA in the next two years as I struggle to forsee any other option within Australasia.
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Well coming to USA is another issue. I can not think of any zoos that are willing to take in two older girls. The ones who have older girls want to phase out like Tacoma park, bronyx, and so on. Unless they can go to a sanctuary like TES or PAWS.
 
ZCChip said:
Well coming to USA is another issue. I can not think of any zoos that are willing to take in two older girls. The ones who have older girls want to phase out like Tacoma park, bronyx, and so on. Unless they can go to a sanctuary like TES or PAWS.
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I agree sending 2 older girls half way around the world is not ideal they should be retained here one way or another!
 
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