Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

[Zoofan15]

Here are some photos I took of his left and right eye a few weeks ago..... You tell me
View attachment 795620 View attachment 795621

The right eye definitely lacks the lustre of the left eye.

That’s a cool pic though, you can clearly see the draining of temporin from the temporal gland (a common sign of musth).

 

[Zorro]

The right eye definitely lacks the lustre of the left eye.

That’s a cool pic though, you can clearly see the draining of temporin from the temporal gland (a common sign of musth).

Could it just be the lighting, shade more on one side?

 

[Zoofan15]

Could it just be the lighting, shade more on one side?

I’m inclined to say not as we’ve seen a few similar photos now.

 

[Pertinax]

Definitely. The keepers literally have decades of experience amongst them. I’ve had the privilege of meeting many amazing keepers across different zoos, but there’s something particularly special about elephant keepers. Their passion is second to none.

In one of the Zoos Victoria documentaries, it was mentioned some members of Melbourne’s elephant team had to be told to go home some evenings and having met their team, I have no doubt that’s true. Compare that to almost any other workplace where 5pm comes and it’s like a stampede on the Serengeti.

Here’s the video you mentioned:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=718949033887379

Without searching back through all the threads, where is Permai from originally, is it known? I remember visiting Perth Zoo in the 1990's- there were four elephants then(1.3) two of which would have been Permai and Putra Mas obviously. I remember how hairy they were and Permai still seems to be so from the video. Also they seemed quite small. Are they perhaps Sumatran in origin?

 

[Zoofan15]

Without searching back through all the threads, where is Permai from originally, is it known? I remember visiting Perth Zoo in the 1990's- there were four elephants then(1.3) two of which would have been Permai and Putra Mas obviously. I remember how hairy they were and Permai still seems to be so from the video. Also they seemed quite small. Are they perhaps Sumatran in origin?

They’re definitely Indian elephants (Australia Zoo has the only Sumatran elephants in the region). Permai came from Malaysia, along with Putra Mas and Teduh.

The four you saw were:

0.1 Tricia (1957-2022)
1.0 Putra Mas (1989)
0.1 Permai (1989)
0.1 Teduh (1990-2007)

 

[Zorro]

Without searching back through all the threads, where is Permai from originally, is it known? I remember visiting Perth Zoo in the 1990's- there were four elephants then(1.3) two of which would have been Permai and Putra Mas obviously. I remember how hairy they were and Permai still seems to be so from the video. Also they seemed quite small. Are they perhaps Sumatran in origin?

You're quite right the few pictures that I have seen of them when young show that they were indeed very hairy but they are not Sumatran!

 

[Jambo]

You're quite right the few pictures that I have seen of them when young show that they were indeed very hairy but they are not Sumatran!

I've noticed a lot of elephants who are from that general lower peninsula area are hairer in general, compared to their other 'Indian Elephant' counterparts from other parts of the South East Asian region.

Mek Kapah at Melbourne also has quite a hairy head - she too came from Malaysia.

 

[steveroberts]

I've noticed a lot of elephants who are from that general lower peninsula area are hairer in general, compared to their other 'Indian Elephant' counterparts from other parts of the South East Asian region.

Mek Kapah at Melbourne also has quite a hairy head - she too came from Malaysia.

Malayan elephants (Elephas maximus hirsutus)

Imagine for the most part now their subspecies status as Malayan elephants is probably not considered valid anymore, but think they probably have enough distinctiveness to be accepted as still.

 

[Zoofan15]

Malayan elephants (Elephas maximus hirsutus)

Imagine for the most part now their subspecies status as Malayan elephants is probably not considered valid anymore, but think they probably have enough distinctiveness to be accepted as.

Permai was the hairiest of the three calves imported in 1992, but Putra Mas had quite a bit of hair when you compare him to the Australian born calves.


Photo source: Perth Zoo

 

[Pertinax]

They’re definitely Indian elephants (Australia Zoo has the only Sumatran elephants in the region). Permai came from Malaysia, along with Putra Mas and Teduh.

The four you saw were:

0.1 Tricia (1957-2022)
1.0 Putra Mas (1989)
0.1 Permai (1989)
0.1 Teduh (1990-2007)

Thanks. I hadn't realised one of them was an 'old' cow from a previous import. Just presumed they were all similar aged probably.

 

[Pertinax]

Heman was a magnificent bull. Here’s a photo of him from 2005, which illustrates the size of his remaining tusk nicely:

Heman the Asian elephant enjoys some water after being reunited with... News Photo - Getty Images

He was, I saw him too around the same era as the Perth visit. He was definately impressive even with a single tusk. So was the Melbourne bull Bongu Su- from memory he had both tusks(?) but one pointed straight down.

 

[Zoofan15]

So was the Melbourne bull Bongu Su- from memory he had both tusks(?) but one pointed straight down.

That’s correct. There’s some photos of Bong Su from his arrival into adulthood here:

Redirect Notice


Source: David Caird

The fourth photo down shows one of his female companions (Peggy). It’s interesting to see she had such prominent tushes.

 

[Zorro]

Permai was the hairiest of the three calves imported in 1992, but Putra Mas had quite a bit of hair when you compare him to the Australian born calves.

View attachment 795678
Photo source: Perth Zoo

I don't remember seeing any calfs with more hair than these

 

[Zoofan15]

I don't remember seeing any calfs with more hair than these

Considering Porntip has hair on the top of her head, my main hope we’d again see a calf like this was when Kanlaya (sired by Putra Mas) was born at Dubbo in 2018. But no, she has less hair than both her parents!

 

[Steve Robinson]

Here are some photos I took of his left and right eye a few weeks ago..... You tell me
View attachment 795620 View attachment 795621

Nope! That eye looks not too bad. Thanks.

Just a little bit paler - maybe the early stages of a cataract.

 

[Steve Robinson]

Not sure then as that photo was obviously taken before his fall. Perhaps he was chained while maintenance was carried out in the exhibit; or so a photographer (unfamiliar to the bull) could be brought in to take that photo. The possibilities are endless.

Here’s a photo of Gandhi, who lived at Taronga Zoo until his death in 1968:

View attachment 795619
Source: How to Move a Zoo: new Sydney Living Museums’ exhibition reimagines parade of animals through city in 1916

Gandhi walking down stairs into bath:

https://static.ffx.io/images/$width_1240/t_resize_width/q_62,f_auto/d6941bae218bd6e166a9246935ca2a2ada48ceb4

In the years that I saw Gandhi [from the very early 1960s until his death] he was always chained from within his stable, just about long enough to reach the perimeter of his yard.

The concrete underfoot was harsh enough but the unrelenting sun in the barren yard with no shade wouldn't have been much fun for him either. Although he did have the option to withdraw into the stable most of the time.

 

[Steve Robinson]

The right eye definitely lacks the lustre of the left eye.

you can clearly see the draining of temporin from the temporal gland (a common sign of musth).

Looks like it has nearly all dried up.

We used to be told that a bull wasn't really dangerous until the temporin reached the mouth.

 

[Zoofan15]

In the years that I saw Gandhi [from the very early 1960s until his death] he was always chained from within his stable, just about long enough to reach the perimeter of his yard.

The concrete underfoot was harsh enough but the unrelenting sun in the barren yard with no shade wouldn't have been much fun for him either. Although he did have the option to withdraw into the stable most of the time.

Auckland Zoo’s history book A Tiger by the Tail details the decision to put down their bull elephant Rajah in 1936 after he became unmanageable (he was 19 years old, so him entering musth may have been a significant factor). They noted the decision, while unfortunate, was seen as a greater mercy than keeping him in chains (as the only alternative available to them at the time).

They resolved to only hold females for the decades that followed, only giving consideration to acquiring another bull in the 1980’s (which fell through).

 

[Jambo]

Considering Porntip has hair on the top of her head, my main hope we’d again see a calf like this was when Kanlaya (sired by Putra Mas) was born at Dubbo in 2018. But no, she has less hair than both her parents!

On the other hand, her half brother (Pathi Harn) at Dubbo, who's sire was also a Malayan bull (Bong Su); had a full head of hair as a kid, and still does to an extent.

 

[Zorro]

Standing on concrete floors for so many years was attributed to the arthritis suffered by Kashin at Auckland Zoo and Bong Su at Melbourne Zoo in their final years. They were 24 and 29 respectively when they moved to modern exhibits with appropriate substrate. Sadly were euthanised on medical grounds in their early 40’s.

Compared to the other zoos in the region, who had significantly smaller exhibits (in Wellington’s case simply an elephant house), Taronga’s exhibit was spacious; but like you say, concrete.

@Zoofan15 I wrote to the director of the Melbourne zoo long before the current and now former exhibit was built about the then size of the elephant yard/exhibit, he replied that they were in fact enlarging the then yard to a larger size but I don't know how small the exhibit was before that!