Australian Asian Elephant Population 2025

Frankie_number_1_fan said:
It is entirely possible she has a medical issue, but I am only saying that it is also very possible/likely that she isn't being bred from due to management decisions. Despite her value, it could be argued that continuing to breed in Taronga Zoo's small exhibit when the much larger Dubbo was also breeding might have been a bad look/impractical for space reasons (the same reason why Melbourne isn't likely to convert to bachelors despite having the perfect set up for it).

Similarly, Monarto has been milking a feel-good, ideal ending for this transfer since it's inception. They evidently have a priority in an integrated group no matter how unrealistic that is (as is becoming more evident), and aren't doing themselves any favors by mentioning that some of their elephants are of breeding age in their statement about breeding.

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, I really do, but when similarly poor decisions have seemingly been made to retire cows prematurely (Thong Dee and Porntip) it is impossible not to be a little critical. If Pak Boon is truly no longer reproductive, why not make a statement about it judt to shut off the rumors? Of course facilities each have their own layers of discretion, but Melbourne was very transparent about Kulab's medical retirement and haven't gotten significant backlash. Imo there is no good reason for them to hide Pak Boon's lack of reproductive ability if that is the issue.
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I don’t anticipate Pak Boon’s TB status to be a barrier to her conceiving. It was something that lay dormant in her system upon her import into Australia (i.e. it wasn’t picked up in health checks) and then flared up following the birth of her first calf in 2010. It was swiftly and effectively treated with antibiotics and Pak Boon delivered a second calf in 2017 without issue. I assume Pak Boon was treated again following the second birth as a preventative measure; and this would surely be a recommendation for a future calf born at Monarto.

Zoos SA have been very non-communicative regarding breeding from their herd, only to discount Burma and Permai due to their age. As I’ve previously mentioned, a Taronga keeper advised breeding from Tang Mo is a non-starter and in any case, she’s now 26 years old.

I feel like a huge opportunity has been missed at Dubbo not to have a cohort of three calves born to Porntip, Thong Dee and Anjalee. That would certainly be an acceptable point to retire Thong Dee from the breeding programme; but retiring Porntip (who has no offspring breeding) is inadvisable at this point in my opinion. As a government funded zoo, what projects Dubbo undertake is at the discretion of funding, so that’s presumably the cause of the delay in building the barn. I imagine the elephant team are as keen for it as we are.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Interesting! I suppose we will have to see what Monarto tells guests about their breeding situation, in time of course, if asked. It would be pretty quick for a volunteer or even a keeper to say "all our girls are post-reproductive/"too old"" if they keep getting prodded about something that was never meant to be in the first place!
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From my experience, keepers are the most reliable source of information (for obvious reasons) on current and past information related to animal husbandry. They’re not always up to date with future plans made higher up (with some even replying that it’s ‘above their pay grade’), which is fair enough. The majority are willing to share information and be as helpful as they can be.

The communication teams/visitor experience staff vary from zoo to zoo. Few if any have the answer to hand; but the most helpful are those that take the time to consult with the relevant team and reply with the answer. Others just tell you to ‘keep an eye on social media, because that’s where the zoo posts updates’.

Without any disrespect, volunteers are least reliable. They’re lower on the information chain than employed staff and their information comes second hand (or further). I’ve often noticed inconsistencies in information I’ve been given or examples where they’ve got half the story right. One example being a volunteer telling me an individual was non-breeding due to it having had multiple offspring (well represented). It was indeed well represented, but had never bred in its life. The over-representation of its line was due to its dam breeding multiple times.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Without any disrespect, volunteers are least reliable. They’re lower on the information chain than employed staff and their information comes second hand (or further) and I’ve noticed numerous inconsistencies in information I’ve been given. One example being a volunteer telling me an individual was non-breeding due to it having had multiple offspring (well represented). It was indeed well represented, but had never bred in its life. The over-representation came from its dam.
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A universal sentiment worldwide I'd say :p I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every incorrect thing I've heard said by a volunteer/docent over the years regarding elephants. (My top being a volunteer telling guests that there were no african elephants in captivity!)
 
Zoofan15 said:
From my experience, keepers are the most reliable source of information (for obvious reasons) on current and past information related to animal husbandry. They’re not always up to date with future plans made higher up (with some even replying that it’s ‘above their pay grade’), which is fair enough. The majority are willing to share information and be as helpful as they can be.
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I need to point out that at major zoos; keepers are actually ranked. There are keepers I, II, and III (and possibly more?) and there are curators. I have learned it is often that the keepers I are often required to give public talks, while the keepers III often work with the curators and above and it is the keepers III that have the more viable information while the keepers I do not always have.
 
Mr.Ivory said:
Well, it would seem that Monarto is planning on breeding Putra Mas, though as stated earlier the goal as of now is to integrate him with the cows, according to this news report
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The two most relevant statements in this interview are:

- Breeding is not the focus, at least for now

- It was the request of the region to provide these five elephants with a forever home

There’s many ways to interpret it; but it’s clear that first and foremost, the establishment of this herd served to accomodate the region’s surplus, enabling three city zoos to phase out elephants.

It’s strongly implied Putra Mas and Pak Boon don’t have a breeding recommendation at this point in time; but there’s also no specific reason to discount them receiving one in the future. Perhaps the situation will be re-assessed once cohesion in the herd has been reported (albeit not ideal considering time is of the essence to breed from Pak Boon).
ZCChip said:
I need to point out that at major zoos; keepers are actually ranked. There are keepers I, II, and III (and possibly more?) and there are curators. I have learned it is often that the keepers I are often required to give public talks, while the keepers III often work with the curators and above and it is the keepers III that have the more viable information while the keepers I do not always have.
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The Australian zoos have similar brackets. Taronga for example has: Trainee Keeper (four levels); then Keeper (four levels); then Senior Keeper (two levels); then Keeping Unit Supervisor. The Keeping Unit Supervisor is the go-between for their team in conversations with senior management.

Most of my conversations with keepers have been when I’ve bumped into someone and taken the opportunity to ask a question (as oppose to attending keeper talks). I can attest that those I know to be senior keepers are more informed than junior keepers and trainees (as you’d expect).
 
Zoofan15 said:
The two most relevant statements in this interview are:

- Breeding is not the focus, at least for now

- It was the request of the region to provide these five elephants with a forever home

There’s many ways to interpret it; but it’s clear that first and foremost, the establishment of this herd served to accomodate the region’s surplus, enabling three city zoos to phase out elephants.

It’s strongly implied Putra Mas and Pak Boon don’t have a breeding recommendation at this point in time; but there’s also no specific reason to discount them receiving one in the future. Perhaps the situation will be re-assessed once cohesion in the herd has been reported (albeit not ideal considering time is of the essence to breed from Pak Boon).


The Australian zoos have similar brackets. Taronga for example has: Trainee Keeper (four levels); then Keeper (four levels); then Senior Keeper (two levels); then Keeping Unit Supervisor. The Keeping Unit Supervisor is the go-between for their team in conversations with senior management.

Most of my conversations with keepers have been when I’ve bumped into someone and taken the opportunity to ask a question (as oppose to attending keeper talks). I can attest that those I know to be senior keepers are more informed than junior keepers and trainees (as you’d expect).
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I would have to agree with your assignment also I believe they are more than aware that they have the most valuable bull in the country and I would be certain they will use him to sire more calfs in the region even if its just to the cows at Werribee and Dubbo!
 
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Zorro said:
I would have to agree with your assignment also I believe they are more than aware that they have the most valuable bull in the country and I would be certain they will use him to more sire calfs in the region even if its just to the cows at Werribee and Dubbo!
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I really hope Putra Mas sires more calves beyond the one surviving offspring he has. Although offspring with Pak Boon (the most genetically valuable cow in the region) would be the ultimate, the second most valuable pairing that could be made in the region is Putra Mas and Anjalee (Dubbo).

If Putra Mas and Anjalee produced a female calf, she would be unrelated to all three bulls at Dubbo (Gung, Pathi Harn and Sabai); and if they produced a male calf, his obvious future destination would be Werribee, where’d he’d be unrelated to their entire herd.

The only issue I foresee with this is Anjalee’s irregular cycles that complicated AI attempts at Auckland Zoo. Although it would be carried out within Australia (and I note some of the five unsuccessful AI attempts were with frozen sperm), her history might discourage Dubbo from attempting it, which would be a shame.
 
ZCChip said:
I need to point out that at major zoos; keepers are actually ranked. There are keepers I, II, and III (and possibly more?) and there are curators. I have learned it is often that the keepers I are often required to give public talks, while the keepers III often work with the curators and above and it is the keepers III that have the more viable information while the keepers I do not always have.
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In the case of Zoos Victoria they actually usually have keepers from the education department who run the keeper talks. I find they're usually only about as knowledgeable on the animals as us, and don't offer much insight.

However occasionally, you'll get an actual keeper doing the public talks (usually when they're feeding/training the animal). They usually provide interesting insight on the animals, and usually also have good knowledge on the regional population too. I've had very insightful discussions with many before - and those are the ones who I would trust with information.

It also depends on what your asking. Even the lower ranked keepers would be aware on whether a specific animal that they work with will be breeding or not, however it comes to things such as future developments, they'll usually be out of the loop. For example, an elephant keeper I chatted to prior to the elephants move to Werribee had no idea what would end up replacing the elephants. I was advised that was kept mostly behind closed doors at the senior management level.
 
 
 
Luke899 said:
Magnificent video of Putra MAs wandering the open spaces

42K views · 3.7K reactions | Asian Elephant Putra Mas is settling in beautifully at Monarto Safari Park. He’s already out exploring the massive habitat connected to his barn — and when we say massive, we mean it! At one point he wandered over a ridge and completely disappeared from view. He seems to be loving every moment of his new home, testing out the space and taking in all the sights, sounds and smells. The best part? This habitat can be seen from the Zu-loop, so if you’re visiting, keep an eye out — you might just catch a glimpse of him. Keeper Jody | Monarto Safari Park
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Zorro said:
That was quick its amazing he is settling in there so fast
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It was mentioned Putra Mas would undergo a brief isolation period upon his arrival. Quarantine is not normally a legislated requirement for transfers within Australia, but many zoos opt to isolate new arrivals as a precaution.

During this period, Putra Mas is clearly making the most of exploring his new surroundings. Luk Chai was the same when he arrived at Werribee, but he was younger; and so considering his age, I’m impressed Putra Mas has taken everything in his stride.

I was hoping we would have seen some content from Zoos SA regarding the reaction of the cows to his arrival on sight; but bar Burma’s observation of him through a fenceline, there’s been minimal coverage of this. Presumably this will come when the introductions start.
 
Zoofan15 said:
It was mentioned Putra Mas would undergo a brief isolation period upon his arrival. Quarantine is not normally a legislated requirement for transfers within Australia, but many zoos opt to isolate new arrivals as a precaution.

During this period, Putra Mas is clearly making the most of exploring his new surroundings. Luk Chai was the same when he arrived at Werribee, but he was younger; and so considering his age, I’m impressed Putra Mas has taken everything in his stride.

I was hoping we would have seen some content from Zoos SA regarding the reaction of the cows to his arrival on sight; but bar Burma’s observation of him through a fenceline, there’s been minimal coverage of this. Presumably this will come when the introductions start.
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I would say that the biggest factor in him handling the trip and how fast he has settled in comes down to his keepers they would know everything about him and how he would react so they are the key to this!
 
Swanson02 said:
A quick comparison I drew up comparing the size of Werribee's, Monarto's, and TWPZ's elephant complexes (L to R), only to the extent of the amalgamated exhibit areas.
View attachment 840832
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This really shows the massive potential for the Werribee complex with regards to subdividing the existing paddocks. Additional barn capacity would be needed in conjunction with this; as well as factoring in stand down/recovery time of the paddocks in use.

For now, the budget doesn’t allow for such modifications, nor are they needed when the nine elephants cohabit without issue in two groupings. However, the potential is there.
 
Luke899 said:
lowkey thought TWPZ was way bigger then that. Kinda small ngl (in terms of land per capita per elephant)
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My first thought was the same.

- Dubbo house seven elephants in four groups
- Werribee house nine elephants in two groups
- Monarto house five elephants in four groups*

*Aspiring to achieve two groupings long term

I’ve never once heard public criticism of Dubbo’s elephant complex with regards to space (in contrast to Taronga Zoo which did); and Dubbo’s complex is approximately a quarter of the size of Werribee’s.

If the funding was there to do it, Werribee absolutely could increase their holding capacity to the originally quoted number of 45 elephants. Subdivide the paddocks and add in additional barn facilities and they’re good to go. By merely adding a gate to the fenceline sub-dividing the paddocks they insure against the inevitable evolution of guidelines around exhibit size (which are currently exceeded beyond comprehension).
 
Zoofan15 said:
My first thought was the same.

- Dubbo house seven elephants in four groups
- Werribee house nine elephants in two groups
- Monarto house five elephants in four groups*

*Aspiring to achieve two groupings long term

I’ve never once heard public criticism of Dubbo’s elephant complex with regards to space (in contrast to Taronga Zoo which did); and Dubbo’s complex is approximately a quarter of the size of Werribee’s.

If the funding was there to do it, Werribee absolutely could increase their holding capacity to the originally quoted number of 45 elephants. Subdivide the paddocks and add in additional barn facilities and they’re good to go. By merely adding a gate to the fenceline sub-dividing the paddocks they insure against the inevitable evolution of guidelines around exhibit size (which are currently exceeded beyond comprehension).
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Actually I would like to see them keep the paddocks the same size but add another couple of smaller bull paddocks (plus barn) of about one acre each, It would be a nice backup plan in case they need to separate future males as needed!
 
Zorro said:
Actually I would like to see them keep the paddocks the same size but add another couple of smaller bull paddocks (plus barn) of about one acre each, It would be a nice backup plan in case they need to separate future males as needed!
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That would also be good to see. It’s unclear what use (if any) Monarto will have for Werribee bred bulls and Dubbo certainly won’t be in a position to take them on, so Werribee will have to manage whatever surplus they can’t export overseas. I’m hopeful North America will have an interest in at least one more Australian bred bull, but there’s clearly not a demand to the point it would enable anything close to unrestricted breeding.

It’ll be interesting to see how the reproductive futures of the cows in the Werribee herd track. Dokkoon and Num-Oi will produce their fourth calves in the next cohort; but their future granddaughters etc. would be lucky to get recommendations for two calves in my opinion. Some cows may even be designated non-breeding when we get to the stage there’s eight plus viable cows in their matriline.
 
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