Australian Elephants and the Program.
- Thread starter Jarkari
- Start date
ZYBen
Well-Known Member
OH DEAR . . . .Who wants to start?
Not tonight, I'm out.
ZYBen
Well-Known Member
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well nomaeintein - i guess the reason is that many people round here are frustrated with animal liberationists is because their opinions are almost always polarised on one end of a spectrum. the other end obviously is reserved for those that have no compassion for animals.
but we sit somewhere in the middle. we have HUGE amounts of respect for animals as individuals, not just their various species - but we tend to think animal liberationists anthropomorphise animals, that is, they project human emotions onto their personalities. this usually demonstrates a lack of understanding of the basic behaviours and needs of a given species, which is hard to respect. see, i don't work in any industry that involves animals, i just read about them. i have an enormous collection of natural history books that i am very proud of. but most importantly i remember what it is i read. and when i hear things that come from animal libbers, more often than not i think "ha! i know more about animals than you do - and you spend all your time fighting for their rights!"
i'll give you an extreme example of the ignorance of anthropomorphising:
sheep get slaughtered in front of eachother. on face value one might think this is cruel. the sheep see one and another, and another of their own slaughtered before them and surely know they are next.
not necessarily. sheep are prey animals and they are also herd animals. the sheep ancestor lived not unlike any goat antelope. occasionally they would be attacked by a predator, say a snow leopard - they flee and about a third of the time, one of them gets eaten. so what does one of their own kind being eaten really mean to a sheep?
relax.
it means stop running. relax. your safe. they got someone else. go back to eating grass. and if you listen to the research done by animal behaviouralists, and some of these people fight passionately against other animal cruelties in the food industry, such as live export - they will tell you that sheep in a slaughterhouse stand around, rather relaxed, completely oblivious to the fact that they too might meet the fate of their herdmates.
thinking sheep think like people doesn't do sheep any favours. you want to know whats best for a sheep, then you have to think like a sheep. and we are not saying sheep don't think. us around here don't think animals are numb thoughtless processors. we think they think. we just don't think they all think like us.
I'm glad Phoenix replied first as I agree with him but would be unable to spell anthropomorphising.
Another part of animal liberation I disagree with is they want to remove our contact with nature and animals. They seem to think nature is not cruel but people are. The truth is nature is cruel, natural deaths are not humane and nature is not in a state of balance but in constant change. This constant change often results in booms and busts of populations and has led to the evolution of species.
Human intervention and management of species reduces these booms and busts and prevents animal suffering. Since humans have been here we have always been involved with nature and it is only in the last few hundred years that a large % of the population has lived in cities and become detached with the environment. Being in the environment and relying on it makes you appreciate it and the species present more. By hunting and eating animals you are actually part of that environment and connected to it. Animal liberation wants to stop this sort of thing and keep humans separate and detached from the environment instead of being part of it, as we have been until recently.
Another part of animal liberation I disagree with is they want to remove our contact with nature and animals. They seem to think nature is not cruel but people are. The truth is nature is cruel, natural deaths are not humane and nature is not in a state of balance but in constant change. This constant change often results in booms and busts of populations and has led to the evolution of species.
Human intervention and management of species reduces these booms and busts and prevents animal suffering. Since humans have been here we have always been involved with nature and it is only in the last few hundred years that a large % of the population has lived in cities and become detached with the environment. Being in the environment and relying on it makes you appreciate it and the species present more. By hunting and eating animals you are actually part of that environment and connected to it. Animal liberation wants to stop this sort of thing and keep humans separate and detached from the environment instead of being part of it, as we have been until recently.
And a lot more so than many of their supporters would care for too. At the extreme end they want to stop all pet ownership as well. Something that wouldn't go down well with their moggy and doggy loving supporters. But for the moment they are happy to pick on soft targets.
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Jesse
Well-Known Member
this could go on forever....but i would like to add that some animal liberationist groups despise the thought of zoos.
a typical example of the lack of knowledge from an animal liberationist:
i was reading a comment made by someone on another website in response to saigon's story. in the comment it stated that she should be taken back to asia and let to roam free. we all know that that is virtually impossible because of a number of reasons.
a typical example of the lack of knowledge from an animal liberationist:
i was reading a comment made by someone on another website in response to saigon's story. in the comment it stated that she should be taken back to asia and let to roam free. we all know that that is virtually impossible because of a number of reasons.
It hasn't got much room, but it could expand across the path and into the aldabra tortoise, condor avairy and grass area behind the bird show area. I can't see it happening anytime soon, if at all. I think they will continue to cram them into the area they are in now.
Come on Hix - almost vertical? It's not that bad. When I was a kid my mates and I sometimes snuck into the zoo through that area (the fence was reasonably low there) and came up at the western end of the old ape house. It was uphill but quite manageable.
As for the shitpitz; (ahem) the sewerage treatment plant; being an old Water Board man I know about that too - the Board collaborated on its installation. It was not before time; prior to that just about everything drained to the harbour. Sure, it takes up a good area but there's still lots of land down there. What about below the Roar and Snore area, or even west of there?
As for the shitpitz; (ahem) the sewerage treatment plant; being an old Water Board man I know about that too
- the Board collaborated on its installation. It was not before time; prior to that just about everything drained to the harbour. Sure, it takes up a good area but there's still lots of land down there. What about below the Roar and Snore area, or even west of there?
So you're talking about a separate enclosure? I thought we were talking about expanding the current one. There is room, but it would cost another fortune, would be off display, would interfere with everything else down there (Birdhouse/ARAZPA/IT) and the road to the shitpits would still run through the middle of it.
Hix
Hix
Hmm - I see what you mean.
Still, expansion could take place from the existing elephant area down to the birdshow area and back into the enclosure currently occupied by chital. Not likely though. It would mean sweeping away a lot of other stuff, most of it recently developed. Nothing's impossible though.
Still, expansion could take place from the existing elephant area down to the birdshow area and back into the enclosure currently occupied by chital. Not likely though. It would mean sweeping away a lot of other stuff, most of it recently developed. Nothing's impossible though.