Paignton Zoo Bad news from Paignton
- Thread starter Gigit
- Start date
Just found out about Kiri.... Hello Velvet,
It certainly was bad news about little Kiri. He is sadly missed R.I.P.
As you said little N'dowe is doing fine and came down with Kiondu hand in hand to the waters edge on the far side of the enclosure ,he sat there wide eyed for a while before clapping his hands in glee,
I managed to get some first time good outside photo's of him will download later.He is at ease with Pertinax but soon they hope to introduce him to Kubuka,that could prove to be tricky.
Regards KKKPN'D
It certainly was bad news about little Kiri. He is sadly missed R.I.P.
As you said little N'dowe is doing fine and came down with Kiondu hand in hand to the waters edge on the far side of the enclosure ,he sat there wide eyed for a while before clapping his hands in glee,
I managed to get some first time good outside photo's of him will download later.He is at ease with Pertinax but soon they hope to introduce him to Kubuka,that could prove to be tricky.Regards KKKPN'D
@kkkp
Thank you for your prompt reply
.
And thank you for those good news of N'Dowe. I'm relieved that he's comfortable with Pertinax which is important I think.
But why is it more difficult with Kubaka? He's only a few years older than N'Dowe isn't he?
Oh, and of course I'm looking forward to see the pics!
Greetings and a nice day
Velvet
Thank you for your prompt reply
. And thank you for those good news of N'Dowe. I'm relieved that he's comfortable with Pertinax which is important I think.
But why is it more difficult with Kubaka? He's only a few years older than N'Dowe isn't he?
Oh, and of course I'm looking forward to see the pics!
Greetings and a nice day
Velvet
Hello velvet
Kumbuka is the 11 year old coming up to 12 soon and very boisterous, but lovely. He is also very smart as he has managed to avoid any contact with Pertinax,therefore he thinks he is the king pin. He nearlly caught him once by sneaking up on him but Kumbuka is very quick and got away.if you could put words to their actions I think Pertinax would be saying 'Damm nearly got you' and i am sure Kumbuka was saying 'Phew that was close'
About to post photos.
Regards from wet Paignton and windy and cold and sunny
Kumbuka is the 11 year old coming up to 12 soon and very boisterous, but lovely. He is also very smart as he has managed to avoid any contact with Pertinax,therefore he thinks he is the king pin. He nearlly caught him once by sneaking up on him but Kumbuka is very quick and got away.if you could put words to their actions I think Pertinax would be saying 'Damm nearly got you' and i am sure Kumbuka was saying 'Phew that was close'
About to post photos.
Regards from wet Paignton and windy and cold and sunny
Good morning, kkkp!
Kumbaka is already almost 12 ~ the age when gorilla youngsters are not yet adult but think they are .
Happens with human kids too at comparable age I've been told
.
Thank you for keeping me informed.
Gruessles from also wet, windy, cool and maybe a little sunny Stuttgart
Velvet
Kumbaka is already almost 12 ~ the age when gorilla youngsters are not yet adult but think they are
. Happens with human kids too at comparable age I've been told
.Thank you for keeping me informed.
Gruessles from also wet, windy, cool and maybe a little sunny Stuttgart
Velvet
Hello velvet
Kumbuka is the 11 year old coming up to 12 soon and very boisterous, but lovely. He is also very smart as he has managed to avoid any contact with Pertinax,therefore he thinks he is the king pin. He nearlly caught him once by sneaking up on him but Kumbuka is very quick and got away.if you could put words to their actions I think Pertinax would be saying 'Damm nearly got you' and i am sure Kumbuka was saying 'Phew that was close'
Interesting the different relationships between the various older Gorillas which have grown up at Paignton. I once saw Pertinax playing gently(almost cuddling
) with Richard(Ricky) who is now at Prague zoo-both were silverbacks then but they were on excellent terms it seemed. Yet Mambi couldn't live in the group once he had matured.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Interesting the different relationships between the various older Gorillas which have grown up at Paignton. I once saw Pertinax playing gently(almost cuddling
Was Mambi the gorilla from Twycross who thought he was a chimp?
I believe that Pertinax is fond of Kiondu and plays with him when no one's about, but kkkp can probably say more about this, as the expert on the gorillas.
Mambi was certainly born at Twycross and handraised, so he may well have had early contact with baby chimps in their nursery. Then he lived with Asante & Sekondi(gorillas)till he moved to Paignton. He went because he was related to Asante and they wanted Sekondi to breed, not him. Molly B. said she'd have him back if it was a failure but he stayed on. Because he was not well socialised, he didn't get on too well with the others, partly because he has a dominant nature I believe, but he seems to have been fine since he moved to France, and is now with females at Bioparc Valencia in Spain. At Paignton he suddenly developed into a very impressive looking silverback which was about the time they had to remove him from the group.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Mambie
I found this in a 2000 edition of Zoo News (in the days before they just regurgitated news from the website for the magazine and actually provided interesting information):
"Mambie, unlike Asato, had never been in close proximity to a silverback before, having been handreared at Twycross and therefore less familiar with the finer details of gorilla etiquette. Needless to say, he read the signs all wrong and on his first meeting with Pertinax tried to attack him, albeit out of nervousness as opposed to out and out aggression. Not the brightest of ideas, especially as Pertinax only wanted to establish his dominance at the top of the pecking order by pinning him down briefly and then letting him go.
Fortunately for Mambie the others would indeed come to his rescue under the impression that he was being attacked, and would chase off Pertinax in no uncertain terms, but without actually making physical contact with him. At that point, with no harm done, we thought we were going to be able to leave all five (Richard, Awali, Pertinax, Asato, Mambie) together, with the youngsters having bolt-holes to which they could retreat if need be, but Mambie regrettably would persist in screaming if Pertinax so much as looked at him resulting in the others chasing Pertinax for no good reason.
Soon after this stage, the whole group went down with 'tummy bugs' which was no doubt in part due to the tensions caused by Mambie's unsettling presence. Asato had already wisely capitulated to Pertinax on being caught for the first time, so it was decided to try and keep Mambie out of the scene for a while and try to get Asato fully accepted by Pertinax and then reintroduce Mambie.
This met with moderate success, but it was soon quite apparent that Pertinax was even less pleased with Mambie being out of the group where he couldn't get to him such that his frequency of displaying caused even Richard to beat a hasty retreat from the show den! As a result we changed our approach and in November re-established Mambie back in with the other younger males in the hope that given more time his confidence will grow and he will cease to be a source of disruption."
It's obviously not easy being Pertinax!
I found this in a 2000 edition of Zoo News (in the days before they just regurgitated news from the website for the magazine and actually provided interesting information):
"Mambie, unlike Asato, had never been in close proximity to a silverback before, having been handreared at Twycross and therefore less familiar with the finer details of gorilla etiquette. Needless to say, he read the signs all wrong and on his first meeting with Pertinax tried to attack him, albeit out of nervousness as opposed to out and out aggression. Not the brightest of ideas, especially as Pertinax only wanted to establish his dominance at the top of the pecking order by pinning him down briefly and then letting him go.
Fortunately for Mambie the others would indeed come to his rescue under the impression that he was being attacked, and would chase off Pertinax in no uncertain terms, but without actually making physical contact with him. At that point, with no harm done, we thought we were going to be able to leave all five (Richard, Awali, Pertinax, Asato, Mambie) together, with the youngsters having bolt-holes to which they could retreat if need be, but Mambie regrettably would persist in screaming if Pertinax so much as looked at him resulting in the others chasing Pertinax for no good reason.
Soon after this stage, the whole group went down with 'tummy bugs' which was no doubt in part due to the tensions caused by Mambie's unsettling presence. Asato had already wisely capitulated to Pertinax on being caught for the first time, so it was decided to try and keep Mambie out of the scene for a while and try to get Asato fully accepted by Pertinax and then reintroduce Mambie.
This met with moderate success, but it was soon quite apparent that Pertinax was even less pleased with Mambie being out of the group where he couldn't get to him such that his frequency of displaying caused even Richard to beat a hasty retreat from the show den! As a result we changed our approach and in November re-established Mambie back in with the other younger males in the hope that given more time his confidence will grow and he will cease to be a source of disruption."
It's obviously not easy being Pertinax!
I've always had a soft spot for Mambie since he was at Twycross. You may have seen the episode in the 'zooKeepers' series where he is introduced to Pertinax for the first time. Lots of screaming from all of them and Pertinax gives him a real drubbing, while the other younger ones try to drive him(pertinax) off.
Mambie seemed to get on much better when he was sent to join the La Boissiere bachelor group where he filled the same role as Pertinax' as the oldest male. Kumbuka would have been in that group at the time as well as the three they still have (including Yeboah for London).
He is now with two females at Valencia Bioparc and despite his bad background, I've seen photos of him mating so he could be a breeder too.
Mambie seemed to get on much better when he was sent to join the La Boissiere bachelor group where he filled the same role as Pertinax' as the oldest male. Kumbuka would have been in that group at the time as well as the three they still have (including Yeboah for London).
He is now with two females at Valencia Bioparc and despite his bad background, I've seen photos of him mating so he could be a breeder too.
Thank you Gigit
I just enjoy observing them and watching their behaviour as a grop.Kivu seems to be Pertinaxs favourite one as on Saturday Kivu was zonked out on the top area by the glass and Pertinax was on his bunk bed. They can be seen playing together and arms linked even Kivu sitting on his lap now Kiondu wants the same attention and he approaches Pertinax and just touches him sometimes he creeps up behind him and does the same Pertinax just turns around and moves on.
They as youngsters seem to wind him up and wheras when Kiri was there he was at the front followed in a line in year order chased Pertinax screaming now no one takes the lead but they chase him in side by side formation screaming but it is short lived and eating soon takes priority.
Goodness knows what will happen when Kumbuka joins the group as he also favoured Kivu. What will happen to N'dowe? Only time will tell.
I think that in these situations stress plays a big part in their lives,especially when they are young as they are shuntted from one place to another,from being raised as humans to becoming Gorillas would be hard for any one.
Lets hope that someone does a study on the Gorillas when they are introduced into stressfull situations.
I just enjoy observing them and watching their behaviour as a grop.Kivu seems to be Pertinaxs favourite one as on Saturday Kivu was zonked out on the top area by the glass and Pertinax was on his bunk bed. They can be seen playing together and arms linked even Kivu sitting on his lap now Kiondu wants the same attention and he approaches Pertinax and just touches him sometimes he creeps up behind him and does the same Pertinax just turns around and moves on.They as youngsters seem to wind him up and wheras when Kiri was there he was at the front followed in a line in year order chased Pertinax screaming now no one takes the lead but they chase him in side by side formation screaming but it is short lived and eating soon takes priority.
Goodness knows what will happen when Kumbuka joins the group as he also favoured Kivu. What will happen to N'dowe? Only time will tell.
I think that in these situations stress plays a big part in their lives,especially when they are young as they are shuntted from one place to another,from being raised as humans to becoming Gorillas would be hard for any one.
Lets hope that someone does a study on the Gorillas when they are introduced into stressfull situations.
1. Why do the young ones chase Pertinax? In male/female groups the females will gang up on the male like this but usually only if he has 'picked on' one of them. Is this for the same reason?
2. I can't remember- has Kumbuka been with Pertinax previously? If not he's quite old to be trying to add him into the group.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
I can answer question no 2 with a 'yes'. It's only recently that Kumbuka has been separated from Pertinax and that was so Pertinax could meet the newbies. I understand they plan to mix them all (Kumbuka hasn't met N'Dowe) soon when they're fully staffed so they can cope with all eventualities. This would probably have happened before now had it not been for Kiri's and Kivu's illnesses.
Over to you, kkkp, for the answer to no 1 as you've spent longer observing them than I have!
Over to you, kkkp, for the answer to no 1 as you've spent longer observing them than I have!
Merci Gigit, Answer to no;1 I hope.It seems for the most part that nothing sets the squabbles of but they do spend a lot of time inside with the escape routes available.This is because they alternate the outside area between them and Kumbuka.
It seems to be like a father sons situation 'lets wind up dad' I have seen Pertinax get up from his siesta and the little ones are no where to be seen as they are in the downstairs rooms but have accses to the bigger enclosure,. They must hear him shuffling across the floor and out pop the little ones!Pertinax comes down to lower floor via the net and if he just shuffles allong nothing happens but if he goes across the floor at high speed its like 'I am here' it kicks of.Not allways like this as time goes on. I dont like to say this but when there are loads of screaming visitors in the house it changes them. Because at night they are apparently totally differant boys will be boys!
It seems to be like a father sons situation 'lets wind up dad' I have seen Pertinax get up from his siesta and the little ones are no where to be seen as they are in the downstairs rooms but have accses to the bigger enclosure,. They must hear him shuffling across the floor and out pop the little ones!Pertinax comes down to lower floor via the net and if he just shuffles allong nothing happens but if he goes across the floor at high speed its like 'I am here' it kicks of.Not allways like this as time goes on. I dont like to say this but when there are loads of screaming visitors in the house it changes them. Because at night they are apparently totally differant boys will be boys!
I think I can translate that for you; when Pertinax 'runs' he is showing them he's boss and maybe even inviting a chase, so they react defensively- even if they don't need to. Its probably become a sort of a game with them.
Increased visitor presence can certainly make Gorillas more tense. They are also very observant about just who is watching them and can pick out even in a crowd, people they like, or don't like, or with strange behaviour, and react accordingly.
This morning as I was walking past the owls and Rosie&Alfie there was this creshendo of noise coming from the gorilla's barking and screaming the door was open from the main enclosure and I knew Pertinax had been out by the smell he exsudes Onions [always a good indicator that he is out or has just been] No sign of them as they were all inside chilling out,
[always a good indicator that he is out or has just been] No sign of them as they were all inside chilling out,I knew Pertinax had been out by the smell he exsudes Onions
its an amazing smell, sometimes compared to stale sweat or burning rubber. I believe its given off by glands around the armpits and elsewhere.