SeaWorld San Diego Bill introduced to ban captive orcas in California

Interesting. Won't they find some avanue around it and call it behavioural? It would be nice if this passed and they expanded the pools to take over the stadium seating. Wishful thinking.
 
Gulo gulo said:
Interesting. Won't they find some avanue around it and call it behavioural? It would be nice if this passed and they expanded the pools to take over the stadium seating. Wishful thinking.
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I think one of the ideas behind this law is that marine parks in California (is SeaWorld the only one that holds orcas in that state?) would have to build seapens for their orcas.
 
TheMightyOrca said:
I think one of the ideas behind this law is that marine parks in California (is SeaWorld the only one that holds orcas in that state?) would have to build seapens for their orcas.
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Six Flags Discovery Kingdom had orcas in the relatively recent past, but no longer does.
 
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TheMightyOrca said:
I think one of the ideas behind this law is that marine parks in California (is SeaWorld the only one that holds orcas in that state?) would have to build seapens for their orcas.
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Read the headline … and think again! I suppose it is wishful thinking to assume that this bill will improve either animal care husbandry and facilities in captivity nor the plight of wild orcas in our Oceans. If it where embedded in a sphere of cooperative mind set between lawmaker and animal care staff at ocean wildlife parks it might be a different matter. But, I sincerely do not believe so.

Basically, we … Homo sapiens … and also Mr. Bloom need to clean up first before we put forward any bills on captive orcas. Tunnelvision? ;) Another thing, the so-called "green image" whale watching safaris can be equally damaging on wild orca populations along with the major surface water pollution we provide! So, in my personal perception the priorities set have been all wrong. You should but read the IUCN Red List materials on our threatened whale and dolphin species to get some form of priority list for their conservation and protection! If those long lists would be any way met in a significant fashion we would be so much the better off!
 
16 words.

Blackfish, going up for re-election soon, and wanting to get in the good with the public.


Hopefully this utterly stupid bill will be thrown out.
 
I couldn't open the article, but I believe it is a thin edge to a very large wedge, what will be next, elephants? great apes, giraffes, bears? I don't like the thought of whales and dolphins etc in captivity, but I dislike bans and laws even more
 
I'm for stopping the shows, but against any sort of release. The shows have gotten so ridiculous anyway, there's no education in it, in my opinion, like there used to be. However, if they stop the shows they would still need to provide some sort of mental stimulation for the whales. They can't leave them just to swim around in circles all day.
 
azcheetah2 said:
I'm for stopping the shows, but against any sort of release. The shows have gotten so ridiculous anyway, there's no education in it, in my opinion, like there used to be. However, if they stop the shows they would still need to provide some sort of mental stimulation for the whales. They can't leave them just to swim around in circles all day.
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Yeah, I don't really see how they can get away with calling the shows educational. I went to SeaWorld once to learn about animals, and was rather disappointed.

But, yeah. The bill is just to stop shows, so I imagine the animals would still receive training for enrichment. I know some zoos do this with their animals without having any shows. Good for exercise and stimulation. Although I do think it would be cool if they made shows that exhibited natural behaviors, and had the narrators/trainers explaining why the animals do those things in the wild. (like splashing to communicate with each other, which is a thing, apparently) I really would like for marine parks to come up with more forms of enrichment for their cetaceans, as well as create more natural enclosures for them. Maybe give them live fish, like a lot of zoos have been doing with their carnivores. I'd totally pay to watch orcas hunt live fish in person.
 
dean said:
I couldn't open the article, but I believe it is a thin edge to a very large wedge, what will be next, elephants? great apes, giraffes, bears? I don't like the thought of whales and dolphins etc in captivity, but I dislike bans and laws even more
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Couldn't agree more. There's been a huge public response to the Blackfish film, and that's a boon for the radicals. Thing is, the animal rights crowd wants much more than an end to orcas in captivity. If they had their way, there wouldn't be zoos.
 
groundskeeper24 said:
Couldn't agree more. There's been a huge public response to the Blackfish film, and that's a boon for the radicals. Thing is, the animal rights crowd wants much more than an end to orcas in captivity. If they had their way, there wouldn't be zoos.
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While I don't support keeping orcas in captivity, I do agree that this kind of law does have me a bit concerned. I don't want to see an end to all zoos or captive animals. Not all animals are the same and some survive better in captivity than others. A lot of zoo lovers and animal welfare activists are against keeping certain animals in captivity, but not all of them, though the general public doesn't always realize this, or that there is good reason for it. (accusations of favoritism and all that) It's so black and white to a lot of people, either you support all captivity or you're against it all.

Chimpangeek said:
AMEN to that idea!
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Hey, I wouldn't complain. If the law gets passed and it's actually enforced, (and assuming SeaWorld doesn't find a loophole to send the orcas somewhere else) I'd be curious to see how SeaWorld goes about it. I imagine the orcas would still be on public display, since that would bring in money for their care. If they go that route, would they build some kind of park or aquarium around it?
 
TheMightyOrca said:
Not all animals are the same and some survive better in captivity than others.
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Of course most animals in zoos do better than survive they frequently thrive to the point of out growing the space provided for them.


TheMightyOrca said:
A lot of zoo lovers and animal welfare activists are against keeping certain animals in captivity, but not all of them, though the general public doesn't always realize this, or that there is good reason for it. (accusations of favoritism and all that) It's so black and white to a lot of people, either you support all captivity or you're against it all.
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I'm sorry, but most animal rights groups are opposed to all animals kept in captivity full stop. P**A in fact states no animal should be kept by any one for what ever reason, unless the animal instigates the relationship. Of course they use a drip drip way of achieving this usually through anthropomorphism and painting the bad exhibits as really bad and by association all other zoos are tared with the same brush.
 
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sorry about the font size I'm using a new laptop on loan and can't get it do bend to my will yet!
 
TheMightyOrca said:
Yeah, I don't really see how they can get away with calling the shows educational. I went to SeaWorld once to learn about animals, and was rather disappointed.

But, yeah. The bill is just to stop shows, so I imagine the animals would still receive training for enrichment. I know some zoos do this with their animals without having any shows. Good for exercise and stimulation. Although I do think it would be cool if they made shows that exhibited natural behaviors, and had the narrators/trainers explaining why the animals do those things in the wild. (like splashing to communicate with each other, which is a thing, apparently) I really would like for marine parks to come up with more forms of enrichment for their cetaceans, as well as create more natural enclosures for them. Maybe give them live fish, like a lot of zoos have been doing with their carnivores. I'd totally pay to watch orcas hunt live fish in person.
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When they were in between shows in late 2005 they were doing something at SWC called Shamu Experience in the Close-Up pool. They demonstrated how they train the behaviors they use in the shows and for husbandry procedures. One particular show, two of the whales would not listen or follow the cues the trainers were giving. It was quite educational in that they taught the audience about Least Reinforcing Scenario, which is how they "discipline" the whales. The trainers would either turn their back on the animal or just plain ignore it and not give it a bridge, which tells the whale they did the correct behavior and would be rewarded.

I tell you what...I have video of three different shows (Shamu Experience, Shamu Adventure and Believe) plus many photos from between shows. I'd love the opportunity to show them to these Blackfish people who keep telling people to learn the truth and watch the movie...just give me an hour with them and I could show them TON of proof that 99% of what the movie claimed is outdated or just plain false. Unfortunately, most of those people don't want to see the proof. They just want to believe what the movie says.
 
azcheetah2 said:
I tell you what...I have video of three different shows (Shamu Experience, Shamu Adventure and Believe) plus many photos from between shows. I'd love the opportunity to show them to these Blackfish people who keep telling people to learn the truth and watch the movie...just give me an hour with them and I could show them TON of proof that 99% of what the movie claimed is outdated or just plain false. Unfortunately, most of those people don't want to see the proof. They just want to believe what the movie says.
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Amen to this!

Sadly so many people are of the mentality that is its on TV or movie, it must be true, which not surprisingly isn't the case.
 
azcheetah2 said:
When they were in between shows in late 2005 they were doing something at SWC called Shamu Experience in the Close-Up pool. They demonstrated how they train the behaviors they use in the shows and for husbandry procedures. One particular show, two of the whales would not listen or follow the cues the trainers were giving. It was quite educational in that they taught the audience about Least Reinforcing Scenario, which is how they "discipline" the whales. The trainers would either turn their back on the animal or just plain ignore it and not give it a bridge, which tells the whale they did the correct behavior and would be rewarded.

I tell you what...I have video of three different shows (Shamu Experience, Shamu Adventure and Believe) plus many photos from between shows. I'd love the opportunity to show them to these Blackfish people who keep telling people to learn the truth and watch the movie...just give me an hour with them and I could show them TON of proof that 99% of what the movie claimed is outdated or just plain false. Unfortunately, most of those people don't want to see the proof. They just want to believe what the movie says.
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I've only been to the SeaWorld in San Antonio. From the way things sound, I hear the ones in Orlando and San Diego do more when it comes to education and the like.

I am against orca captivity, but, yeah, I really didn't think Blackfish was that great. Most of the captive orca footage they used was older stuff, much of it from parks that have closed down. If they want to say "orca captivity iz bad u guyz", they should talk about how the animals behave in the wild and how captive conditions aren't conducive to natural behaviors, and explain WHY orcas do poorly in captivity in general, not just the crappiest places. (Tillikum certainly has it better at SeaWorld than the old places) I'm all for more people being educated on the subject, and I won't complain if people making an informed decision change sides either way. But jumping on a bandwagon (like a lot of the movie viewers are probably doing) doesn't do anyone any good, and it doesn't do the animals any good.

While I want orcas to be phased out of captivity, a "Blackfish bill" has me a bit nervous for this reason. Because lets be honest, most of the people who only start caring about an issue after seeing a single movie usually lose interest after a little while. I don't want any laws to be a kneejerk reaction to a single thing; they need to look at the overall picture. Are modern conditions still inadequate? If so, would it be possible to create adequate conditions? While I wouldn't exactly be unhappy if the law passed, I want it to pass because people looked at the evidence and made an informed decision. That's not to say I'm against movies bringing attention to certain issues, but such films should only be a starting point for changing views.
 
I would definitely disagree with total phase out, exactly as this bill is only introduced from the B/W crowd and not with any good scientific arguments in them. I would also favor further improving captive conditions and larger facilities and sea / saltwater pools / filtration systems.

Further, as I have observed before this bill does not serve any conservation purpose of orcas whatsoever, nor does it support whale and dolphin conservation in a wider sense.

Aside, one must / should observe it is the very existence of captive whale / dolphin facilities that have drawn attention to the plight of wild whales and dolphins, and not the Blackfish community / animal welfarist (besides them not having any good clues to what nature / state the wild / wildlands really are ...

Lastly, one should not forget the important role played by captive dolphin facilities in the care and rehabilition of wounded / some stranded whales. Given all the strandings and wounded / sub-condition whales found along our shores in need of care and rehab ..., that is a task I would like to see expanded further as large numbers of whales continue to be stranded by due to high sea transport traffic, high levels of sea surface water pollution and other environmental ills we expunge on our Oceans.

So, my ever contueing argument here ... where are the resources needed to protect our Oceans sustainably from ourselves and where does this Bill than fit in (it does not serve either ... IMO). :(
 
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