Twycross Zoo Bonobos
- Thread starter Upali
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The Aspinall parks have in the past attempted to import a group of bonobo from their rescue centre in Africa, but not for permant exhibition, this was during a time of war in the Congo and was for the safety of the group but CITES in their wisdom turned down the application.
A good point. A few years ago Marwell were planning to have Bonobos, this was before there was a 'surplus' group at Twycross (of course Twycross mighn't regard them as such..
) and I think that idea has probably been dropped in favour of bachelor Gorillas. I am sure Marwell would have built a decent enclosure for them.Most other zoos that already have chimps probably wouldn't be interested. As Johnstonii suggests, maybe Bristol's new park when it happens would be in the running. But Howletts is perhaps the most realistic option- on their present form they could build a very good enclosure rapidly. They might well do so if Twycross were prepared to transfer one group.
I've noticed Bonobos actually make a very good display- very active and they freely use their outdoor area at Twycross- the reason I don't like seeing one group confined indoors.
that's quite possible. Bristol and Twycross have a good relationship(or did in the past during MB's era) and two gorillas actually went on breeding loan to Bristol, while Twycross handraised at least one of Bristol's baby orangutans.
The bad news is if this is the outcome, those two Bonobo groups will have to continue sharing their space at Twycross for a long time to come.
I think the reality is that Twycross are very-happy-thank-you-very-much with the fact that they house the only 'group' of bonobos in the country. Why doesn't Twycross just build a second enclosure? Why does Twycross keep pairs of chimps in long narrow pens? Why does Twycross mow the lawn in all of their gibbon enclosures? Who knows (well Molly did)?
One would have hoped that Twycross would have put the Molly-years past them and gotten on with running Twycross like a modern world-class facility that it could/should be.
For those who think that Twycross do really well with species, it is no longer suitable to just keep a wide menagerie of species. You must actually do something worthwhile with it. Having a nice collection of gibbon species means nothing unless Twycross regularly breed all of those species and contribute funds towards some conservation. I saw (and was impressed by) species of guenons, spider monkeys, langurs and uakari that I had never seen before visiting Twycross (nearly 10 years ago). I can almost guarantee that most of those species are in the same basic accomodation and largely in non-breeding situations (if they haven't already died out). I'm sorry but not good enough.
One would have hoped that Twycross would have put the Molly-years past them and gotten on with running Twycross like a modern world-class facility that it could/should be.
For those who think that Twycross do really well with species, it is no longer suitable to just keep a wide menagerie of species. You must actually do something worthwhile with it. Having a nice collection of gibbon species means nothing unless Twycross regularly breed all of those species and contribute funds towards some conservation. I saw (and was impressed by) species of guenons, spider monkeys, langurs and uakari that I had never seen before visiting Twycross (nearly 10 years ago). I can almost guarantee that most of those species are in the same basic accomodation and largely in non-breeding situations (if they haven't already died out). I'm sorry but not good enough.
Blackpool's Gorilla exhibit is rather dated(c.1970 building) but the husbandry is good. There is a hilly island covered in vegetation which is an extension to the original enclosure and presents a very natural-looking environment. Here I think the gorillas are shut out onto it during the day(at least sometimes) There are 1.3 gorillas but the only problem there is they don't breed.
The orangutan enclosure at Blackpool is pretty poor though....
As I've mentioned before Blackpool's record of keeping apes is way too dodgy for my books to encourage sending bonobos there (too many gorilla and orang deaths). I would far prefer to see them in facilities with good ape husbandry histories such as Paignton, Howletts/Port Lympne, London, Edinburgh or Chester. Won't happen though...
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
While many small mammal species will quickly vanish from zoos if they don't breed successfully, monkeys can quietly exist in non-breeding groups for decades, slowly dying out long after they were imported. I really think that's the situation at Twycross, I would be very interested to see the successful births against deaths of the Ukaris, proboscis, guenons, red howlers and some langur species that died out there. I would suspect the animals were imported in the mid-late 70's, and just lived out their lives without breeding regularly, or at all. It's not just Twycross, though, Banham was another renowned 'primate zoo', although less so that Twycross, and they've lost or given up on nearly all their difficult species.
I saw on television recently a member of the Twycross staff who was speaking about plans to add lots of planting to the whole site. One would hope this might extend inside the enclosures, in particular the ape areas, which really need to be moved on from, as tetrapod observed, the freshly-mown lawns and climbing frames, which resemble children's playgrounds rather than a varied and stimulating primate habitat.
I saw on television recently a member of the Twycross staff who was speaking about plans to add lots of planting to the whole site. One would hope this might extend inside the enclosures, in particular the ape areas, which really need to be moved on from, as tetrapod observed, the freshly-mown lawns and climbing frames, which resemble children's playgrounds rather than a varied and stimulating primate habitat.
1. Yes, I'm pretty sure they are too, even if it means they now have to live indoors for long periods of time.
2. They haven't done so though, have they?
3. Agree 100%
You sound almost as much of a 'Twycross hater' as I am....
Blackpool wasn't mentioned in the context of Bonobos- its totally unsuitable. But I agree that Twycross will just sit on these groups anyway. Any other zoo seriously wanting Bonobos would probably have to apply through EEP and get them from Europe.
I am pretty sure you are correct, otherwise they would by now have large thriving groups of many species e.g. the Guenons where in fact they've got just pairs, or single, some of them obviously elderly.
I saw that too- I fear though it will relate to the grounds rather than the primate enclosures, though one lives in hope. It certainly needs more planting as its still quite a bare site.
For primates generally, I think Howletts and Port Lympne may be taking over as the centre for (particularly old world) Monkeys- they are the ONLY place with regularly breeding & good-sized groups of some of the Guenons, the Drills etc and their new enclosures are also excellent.
I've never seen any housed elsewhere apart from the Bonobo House.
Building another Bonobo House would cost too much. Its easier for them to just put up with the current unsatisfactory situation.
The old Chimpanzee enclosures are on a similar level to what you might see in an Indian or African zoo- real third world stuff. But this is the 'World Primate Centre' so that's okay?
taun
Well-Known Member
I do favour the idea of moving some chimpanzee's out to create some more room for the second group of bonobo's.
But the best solution would be a new enclosure, but Tywcross seem to want to look after its visitors better with a new entrance and resturant!!! Plus a new Snow Leopard enclosure, what about their current problems? They cant keep sweeping them under the carpet or by the occasional AI Elephant birth!!! They need to improve the current exhibits.
I mean a new climbing frame for the orangutans was no better than something the council would erect for a childrens play ground! And we all know that tis country's councils dont like to spend money!
But the best solution would be a new enclosure, but Tywcross seem to want to look after its visitors better with a new entrance and resturant!!! Plus a new Snow Leopard enclosure, what about their current problems? They cant keep sweeping them under the carpet or by the occasional AI Elephant birth!!! They need to improve the current exhibits.
I mean a new climbing frame for the orangutans was no better than something the council would erect for a childrens play ground! And we all know that tis country's councils dont like to spend money!
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
Surely if Edinburgh are planning to build up their chimpanzee group, the obvious source would be Twycross? But I assume all their chimpanzees are 'characters', which are bound to stay for the rest of their lives at the site.
Guenons - to Pertinax....yes Howletts and Port Lympne esp are becoming the main UK centres for excellence in successful primate breeding, however they have only really cracked it with two guenon species, to my knowledge they never bred from the greater or lesser spot-nosed or samangos. But still, these two parks, plus colchester, edinburgh and blackpool, seem to be doing well with more than just black howlers or eastern colobus....
Back to Twycross, the pointlessness of a snow leopard enclosure with a snow machine really will be a travesty, especially when there are Asiatic lions waiting for proper accomodation, let alone primates.
I often wonder if there was some kind of legal document prepared by Ms. Badham to control some of the aspects of the zoo in the event of her passing....understandable but this collection will really be lagging behind in 5 years or so if it doesn't overhaul what it already has.
Guenons - to Pertinax....yes Howletts and Port Lympne esp are becoming the main UK centres for excellence in successful primate breeding, however they have only really cracked it with two guenon species, to my knowledge they never bred from the greater or lesser spot-nosed or samangos. But still, these two parks, plus colchester, edinburgh and blackpool, seem to be doing well with more than just black howlers or eastern colobus....
Back to Twycross, the pointlessness of a snow leopard enclosure with a snow machine really will be a travesty, especially when there are Asiatic lions waiting for proper accomodation, let alone primates.
I often wonder if there was some kind of legal document prepared by Ms. Badham to control some of the aspects of the zoo in the event of her passing....understandable but this collection will really be lagging behind in 5 years or so if it doesn't overhaul what it already has.
Realistically that could be more likely than them parting with any of the Bonobos elsewhere.
They could quite easily put all the Gorillas in one house- the 2nd Gorilla house is almost empty anyway, it has only the two females and the five year old male, and who knows, SamSam might even breed with them? (though I'm pretty certain they don't actually WANT to breed gorillas any more.)
I was amazed
when I saw the new Orangutan climbing equipment. I believe the lady fundraised something like £10,000 for this- where did the rest of the money go? This climbing frame is really archaic- better for bears than apes like Orangutan. I do hate to see the Orangutans 'wearing' old curtains and clothes too. Ugh...
taun
Well-Known Member
1. Yes, but as you mention I think Twycross might be loathe to part with them, although maybe younger ones they would(Colchester had one or more from them)- also I think Edinburgh may want to focus on West African chimps and slowly phase out the mongrels by preventing any more breeding from them.
2. True- the Spot nosed and Samango's haven't bred- its only the Dianas and De Brazzas, and the Dianas still have old-stytle accomodation.
3. Yes, to keep the zoo as old fashioned as possible and have priorities totally wrong...
And pigs might fly!
Oh yes, I'm being hypothetical- another nice idea that will never happen. I think that getting Kesho from Dublin is a possibilty eventually though...