British People, Passports, and Brexit

[sooty mangabey]

The subject of imports is a tricky one, on the one hand it is indeed better from an environmental point of view to import from the EU but doesn't this condemn African nations to eternal poverty?

A difficult one. I’m certainly no expert in this area, but I would suspect that the income generated in, for example, Kenya from the growing of mange tout does not necessarily filter down - and that such agriculture may have a negative impact on local farmers who seek to feed themselves and their local communities.

 

[CGSwans]

Resorting to personally insulting me, has no impact on the facts.

I apologise if you took offence, but my observation was not an ad hominem, it was just that, an observation.

If you believe that currency valuations (or gold, steel and other commodities for that matter) have no real world meaning then you are either ignorant of basic economic theory or being truly disingenuous. I am not equipped in this forum to address the former, and I have no interest in playing along if it’s the latter.

You are entitled to your opinion, but far too many Brexiteers have felt entitled to their own facts, which they are not. And you will all be paying for it for a very, very long time.

 

[gentle lemur]

A few years ago the EU dictated how bendy our bananas could be !!! no **** I kid you not!!.
Finally, (my fav bit, so I have saved to last) – Is that you Boris?...No, I’m more Melchett myself.

Utter ****, I'm sorry to say.
It's one of the lies that Boris (yes, the same Boris) invented when he was Brussels correspondent for The Times. He was sacked by Mr Murdoch for telling so many Porky Pies - which is just one of the ironies of the current situation.
By comparing yourself to Melchett, I take it that you are referring to the idiot in Blackadder rather than to the late Peter Mond, 4th and last Baron Melchett, who died in August this year. His great great grandfather was the chemical engineer Ludwig Mond, who founded the company that eventually became ICI. The late Lord Melchett was a very effective campaigner on many environmental issues and we are the poorer for his passing.

 

[Pootle]

Utter ****, I'm sorry to say.
It's one of the lies that Boris (yes, the same Boris) invented when he was Brussels correspondent for The Times. He was sacked by Mr Murdoch for telling so many Porky Pies - which is just one of the ironies of the current situation.
By comparing yourself to Melchett, I take it that you are referring to the character in Blackadder rather than to the late Peter Mond, 4th and last Baron Melchett, who died in August this year. His great great grandfather was the chemical engineer Ludwig Mond, who founded the company that eventually became ICI. The late Lord Melchett was a very effective campaigner on many environmental issues and we are the poorer for his passing.

Baaaaaa. I hope that clears that question up for you nicely.

And ICI went under.

 

[gentle lemur]

Baaaaaa. I hope that clears that question up for you nicely.

And ICI went under.

I don't think even Richard Curtis and Ben Elton could invent anyone who would still believe Boris's lies.
ICI effectively split itself up. As far as I know the separated companies are still operating for their current owners, who are probably a lot more worried about the effects of Brexit than many others.

 

[Pootle]

I don't think even Richard Curtis and Ben Elton could invent anyone who would still believe Boris's lies.
ICI effectively split itself up. As far as I know the separated companies are still operating for their current owners, who are probably a lot more worried about the effects of Brexit than many others.

Effective split up is one way of saying it, another is it went under,

Also, this Boris man you and others refer to? he seems popular (albeit in a negative way) with you pro Europe (aka scared of change for the greater good mob). Next thing we will see in text here is that Mrs.Thatcher was useless for the country.

 

[Ned]

A difficult one. I’m certainly no expert in this area, but I would suspect that the income generated in, for example, Kenya from the growing of mange tout does not necessarily filter down - and that such agriculture may have a negative impact on local farmers who seek to feed themselves and their local communities.

Admittedly a few cut flowers and beans isn't much of an export trade but don't they deserve a chance to expand this? I doubt Kenya will ever join the EU so won't get there preferential treatment that EU members get. This only served to disadvantage the disadvantaged.

 

[Andrew Swales]

I apologise if you took offence, but my observation was not an ad hominem, it was just that, an observation.

If you believe that currency valuations (or gold, steel and other commodities for that matter) have no real world meaning then you are either ignorant of basic economic theory or being truly disingenuous. I am not equipped in this forum to address the former, and I have no interest in playing along if it’s the latter.

You are entitled to your opinion, but far too many Brexiteers have felt entitled to their own facts, which they are not. And you will all be paying for it for a very, very long time.

It is interesting how often the remain camp takes the moral high ground and belittles the intelligence of their opponents. Such entrenched opinion and personal attacks, are why I (for one) could not personally bring myself to vote either way in the referendum, which asked a simplistic question about such a complex subject.

I certainly take personal accusations of illiteracy as an insult, especially given the standards and lack of accuracy of some contributions on ZooChat - and it will be interesting to see if the 'moderators' tolerate such.

 

[Simon Hampel]

I certainly take personal accusations of illiteracy as an insult

I'd just like to point out that the assertion was of "economic illiteracy" - meaning a lack of basic understanding of economic matters. A large percentage of the population could well be classified in this way - economics is rather complex after all (and subject to endless debate because it is all mostly opinion anyway).

Quite different to asserting that one cannot read - which would indeed be quite offensive.

 

[Shorts]

I just love political discussions, they're right up there, along with stepping on Lego, as one of my favourite things in the world...

If you like stepping on Lego try an upturned plug, ecstasy! Thinking about it, those EU two pin plugs are virtually impossible to impale yourself on the prongs of, maybe they know a thing or two.

 

[Brum]

If you like stepping on Lego try an upturned plug, ecstasy!

I've done both, unfortunately there is far more Lego on the floor of my daughter's bedroom than there are plugs. And it's a bloody deep carpet, bedtime is like a minefield!

Thinking about it, those EU two pin plugs are virtually impossible to impale yourself on the prongs of, maybe they know a thing or two.

That's it, Shorts has won the Brexit argument. Two-pin plugs are the way forward (Well un-impaled feet are anyway!), let's go back and admit we were wrong!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Such entrenched opinion and personal attacks, are why I (for one) could not personally bring myself to vote either way in the referendum, which asked a simplistic question about such a complex subject.

(Cards on the table here; I voted Remain myself but know a lot of people who abstained like yourself for pretty much exactly the reasons you cite)

Definitely agree with you that the referendum asked a ridiculously simplistic question - I reckon that a LOT of the subsequent ill-feeling and vitriol on both sides could have been avoided if the question on the ballot had avoided a stark yes/no black/white dichotomy and given the opportunity for those who voted Leave to define (to some level) what they actually wanted......

So in other words, rather than REMAIN or LEAVE, something closer to REMAIN, LEAVE (RETAIN CUSTOMS UNION), LEAVE (NORWAY OPTION), LEAVE (HARD BREXIT) and UNDECIDED would have a) potentially reflected the views of the public more truly b) given an option other than abstention for individuals such as yourself and c) actually made it clear what the majority of "Leave" voters wanted.

And with that, I'm once again retreating from this thread given the fact I am utterly sick of the venom and vitriol which seems to increasingly embody the Brexit debate, and hence have no desire to get into the debate here. Personally I'd quite like it if this thread died off, as I don't see it going any better from here than it has already.....

 

[Ned]

One of the problems I have with Btexit is the lack of willingness we have to discuss it. In the run-up to the referendum most people I know politely avoided the issue so I'm glad to see the elephant in the room debated here. Only it's a little too late.
In contrast, when I go abroad I often get asked about Brexit by people wanting to discuss it and able to have calm conversation. I've been disappointed by British peoples inability to have a sensible debate but even more disappointed by the constant shying away from the issue. Though of course I understand why and am also guilty.

 

[taun]

One of the problems I have with Btexit is the lack of willingness we have to discuss it. In the run-up to the referendum most people I know politely avoided the issue so I'm glad to see the elephant in the room debated here. Only it's a little too late.
In contrast, when I go abroad I often get asked about Brexit by people wanting to discuss it and able to have calm conversation. I've been disappointed by British peoples inability to have a sensible debate but even more disappointed by the constant shying away from the issue. Though of course I understand why and am also guilty.

Leave voters tend to have blinkers on (in my experience) and so there is no debating with them.

EU is not perfect but it is no where near as bad as the leave campaign made out it to be.

 

[Ned]

Unfortunately so do remainers, I notice no one picked up on my comment about trade pacts between rich nations keeping down developing nations. It's not just the EU that's guilty of this but it's something that should be recognized. There's also a bit of a contradiction here as an individual who apposes free movement of people, due to a fear that cheap labour will suppress their income, is racist but a nation can impose import duty to protect industry even though this harms others. Perhaps a true free market is needed to encourage the redistribution of wealth.

 

[Brum]

I've done both, unfortunately there is far more Lego on the floor of my daughter's bedroom than there are plugs. And it's a bloody deep carpet, bedtime is like a minefield!

I just thought I'd tell you all that yesterday I trod on a piece of Lego barefoot, and whilst hopping around and swearing I trod on a plug with my other foot! OUCH!!!!

 

[Ned]

I just thought I'd tell you all that yesterday I trod on a piece of Lego barefoot, and whilst hopping around and swearing I trod on a plug with my other foot!OUCH!!!!

You should have asked Santa for slippers!

 

[Brum]

You should have asked Santa for slippers!

Ironically he did bring me a pair, but I was getting changed at the time so they were rendered useless!

 

[Shorts]

I just thought I'd tell you all that yesterday I trod on a piece of Lego barefoot, and whilst hopping around and swearing I trod on a plug with my other foot! OUCH!!!!

A Doh! (rather than an ouch) would have been perfect. You need to take a "Which one of the Three Stooges are you" quiz?