Captive Orca Population

[Jambo]

More footage has been posted to Weibo of the Chimelong "Spaceship". One of these videos shows a new grouping of at least seven individuals, including an adult male and a young calf. It will be interesting to see whether or not they can keep them all together or whether they have groupings they stick to. I believe this is the case at Seaworld San Diego since Kasatka died? I am aware that Corky and Ulises do not get along and were not placed together if Kasatka was not also in the same tank, I am not sure if this is still the case, I am pretty sure they are also split into smaller groupings most of the time? Would also be interesting to see what the social structure looks like as off the top of my head I believe this is the first time males have outnumbered females in a collection? I think the closest reference point would again be San Diego but I believe they mostly kept an almost even mix of males to females.

Considering Seaworld’s social issues steemed mainly from the fact that they had orcas from different eco types; I doubt this is an issue Chimelong will face. In saying that, personalities do clash, but at the present it does seem like Chimelong is able to group all (or most) orcas together without issue.

Ulises is an overtly dominant male and so he was and is difficult to place with lower ranking individuals. Corky has the virtue of being one of the only submissive females at SD, and has therefore encountered issues with Ulises. Ulises also had issues with Orkid and Takara in the past for this same reason. When Kastaka was in with them, Ulises wouldn’t dare touch her, but other than that they were kept seperate. As far as I know Corky and Uli haven’t been grouped together since Kasatka’s passing.

In regards to social groupings, SeaWorld San Diego are known to have one of the best functioning pods out of all Seaworld’s due to their regim. All orcas are regularly shifted through different social groupings and so it can really vary. However, there are orcas that are usually grouped with orcas and not with others. It would be long to go through each but would be happy to if that’s something your interested in.

Seaworld’s always had a lack of males; which is an issue they’ve faced in the past. San Diego’s had more males than females back in the early 2000’s for a short period. This shouldn’t be an issue since the sex ratio isn’t severely outweighed the way of the males, but even if it was; issues usually shouldn’t pertain.

 

[Jambo]

Chimelong news:

Official confirmation regarding Yilong, the first successful calf born at Chimelong. The calf was born on 05/04/2019.

A video of the birth from Youtube is linked below:

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

Recently Katina at SeaWorld Orlando has been undergoing a serve skin condition similar to what Kataska experienced in her final years. She is undergoing treatment and will hopefully recover soon. Lynn at PON was also having some skin issues but she seems to be much better now.

 

[TinoPup]

Tokitae had been returned home, where the Lummi will have a ceremony for her and and then spread her ashes. Miami Seaquarium on Instagram: "Under a bright sky in Bellingham, Washington, a plane chartered by Miami Seaquarium landed to bring Lolita back home. Accompanied by the CEO of The Dolphin Company, Eduardo Albor, the Chief Veterinary Officer, Dr. Guillermo Sanchez, and representatives of Lummi Nation, Lolita was delivered to the Lummi Nation tribe at the airport and taken to the reservation where she will be mourned according to the traditions of the tribe. Lolita, the last surviving of the whales taken in the 70’s from Puget Island, became the only one that returned home and will be honored by his family. Lummi Nation tribe expressed their profound gratitude to The Dolphin Company, who recently acquired Miami Seaquarium, for allowing her to come back home and for the opportunity to now spread her ashes in the place she was born. We, at the Dolphin Company, take pride for making possible for Lolita to come back home and for reuniting her with the ancestors, according to Lummi Nation tribe. “I gave my word to the world to bring her back home, since the day she died, just like I promised my daughter Regina to do all in my power to improve her habitat when she was alive. Now, I am much honored to meet my word with my daughter and the rest of the world”. Said Eduardo Albor. Lolita’s ceremony among the Lummi Nation is now pending because of an incident within the community. We want to pay our respects for the Lummi Nation tribe during this difficult time. In the following days we will share the dates for Lolita’s tribute."

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

Such a shame that she was only able to return to her native Salish Sea in death, but it is nice to know that Tokitae has finally come home.

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

Update from Antibes:
According to recent news articles and the airline flying the whales to Japan, the four orcas will be leaving France somewhere between January and February of 2024. No official application has been sent in for a permit to transfer the killer whales but the park has already started transport training.

The orcas will be disturbed among three Japanese parks as follows: Kamogawa SeaWorld, Port of Nagoya Aquarium, and Suma SeaWorld

Starting this month, Marineland has closed public access to the orca stadium on all days besides weekends to allocate time for transport preparation.

There is currently a high level of backlash from citizens and many organizations which the French government is taking time to pay attention to.

The orcas are now officially property of the Granvista Group which owns all the Japanese SeaWorld parks.

In February of 2023, the French government was looking for an organization to evaluate the practicality of a french seaside sanctuary but were met with no response.


Update from Mundo Marino:
Kshamenk is currently facing extreme weight loss that has caused his ribs to become visible and head indents to form behind his blowhole (known as “peanut head”). He is no longer able to perform high energy behaviors and instead rejects most behavior requests. Most experts do not believe he is going to survive through the upcoming winter.


Update from Wuxi:
Since the cancellation of Wuxi Changqiao Ocean Kingdom, two killer whales have been held in a temporary off-site facility. Wuxi’s permits expire next month and plans are currently being discussed of moving the two orcas to Zhengzhou Haichang Polar Ocean Park along with Shanghai’s two males, Cody and Sean. It is also believed that the two whales that currency reside at Wuxi are female instead of males as originally thought.


Update from Moskvarium:
After the death of Nord in June of this year, the Moskvarium is currently discussing transfer plans of their last remaining orca, Naja. All details are unknown as well as the facilities and organizations involved.

 

[Jambo]

According to recent news articles and the airline flying the whales to Japan, the four orcas will be leaving France somewhere between January and February of 2024. No official application has been sent in for a permit to transfer the killer whales but the park has already started transport training.

The orcas will be disturbed among three Japanese parks as follows: Kamogawa SeaWorld, Port of Nagoya Aquarium, and Suma SeaWorld

Good to have what seems to be a projected timeline for their transfer. It's also interesting to know all four will be sent to each of the three Japanese facilities. I think we will see some re-shuffling but can guarantee there will be a male at each facility. I'm thinking the following might be best;

Kamogawa- Inouk, Lovey, Lara, potential calf from Lovey?
Port of Nagoya- Stella, Lynn, Earth, Keijo, Wikie
Suma - Moana, Ran, Luna

That way each facility has a reasonable amount of orcas; and one designated breeding male for each facility. Wikie will probably be sent to Nagoya as the only unrelated male (Earth) is there. Keijo would also give Earth well needed companionship that he's previously lacked.

 

[Jambo]

Since the cancellation of Wuxi Changqiao Ocean Kingdom, two killer whales have been held in a temporary off-site facility. Wuxi’s permits expire next month and plans are currently being discussed of moving the two orcas to Zhengzhou Haichang Polar Ocean Park along with Shanghai’s two males, Cody and Sean. It is also believed that the two whales that currency reside at Wuxi are female instead of males as originally thought.

From photos, it did appear (at least to me) that they were to females. If so, that would be good as they could then be bred with Sean at Zhengzhou. It would be good to have another pod at Zhengzhou rather than just two males.

After the death of Nord in June of this year, the Moskvarium is currently discussing transfer plans of their last remaining orca, Naja. All details are unknown as well as the facilities and organizations involved.

China's obviously the best destination. Shanghai will have the space to accommodate an additional female following Sean and Cody's transfer. Or similarly, Zhengzhou could be another option, especially if they wish to breed them over there as well.

Aside from those too, I don't see any other realistic options. Japan's facilities will be full once the French orcas arrive and breeding occurs there. Chimelong's a big unknown as they could be approaching capacity.

I guess you can't rule out Loro Parque, who are down to one female. Not sure what their future is with orcas; as they haven't gone through with the previously proposed expansion.

 

[Yazziel]

CarolineL on Instagram: "Some news about the transfer : - Marineland orcas will go to Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya and Suma. The orcas will move during annual closure. - At Kamogawa, Luna will stay until her mother give birth (due date 2/3 months) to learn maternal knowledge and than go to Suma. Ran will probably go to Loro Parque due to the affiliation they have. - At Nagoya, Stella will go to Suma (much closer from Nagoya than Kamogawa) as she belongs to Kamogawa and Suma groups whoch ended their affiliated with that facility. (Informations from anonymous trainers) Quelques nouvelles sur le transfert : - Les orques de Marineland iront à Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya et Suma. Les orques bougeront durant la fermeture annuelle 2024. - À Kamogawa, Luna restera jusqu'à ce que sa mère donne naissance (dans 2/3 mois) pour apprendre les connaissances maternelles et elle ira à Suma. Ran ira probablement à Loro Parque en raison de leur affiliation. - À Nagoya, Stella ira à Suma (beaucoup plus proche de Nagoya que Kamogawa) car elle appartient au groupe de Kamogawa et Suma qui ont mis fin à leur affiliation avec cette installation. (Informations de soigneurs anonymes) Algunas noticias sobre los traslados: - Las orcas de Marineland irán a Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya y Suma. Las orcas se trasladaran durante el cierre annual 2024. -En Kamogawa, Luna se quedará hasta que su madre dé a luz (dentro de 2/3 meses) para aprender conocimientos maternales e ira a Suma. Ran probablemente irá a Loro Parque debido a la afiliación que tienen. -En Nagoya, Stella irá a Suma (mucho mas cerca de Nagoya que Kamogawa) como pertenece al grupo de Kamogawa y Suma que terminaron con su afiliación a esa instalación. (Informaciones de cuidadores anónimos) Loro Parque, Marineland, Port Nagoya, Kamogawa, Suma #marineland #orca #orque #killerwhale #dauphin #delfin #dolphin #seaworld #captivity #captivité #delphinarium #seaworldcares #dolphinarium #oceanografic #bottlenosedolphin #delfinario #loroparque #cautividad #cautiverio #mymarineland #blackfish is ******** Don’t #emptythetanks #boycottseaworld #dontbuyaticket #captivitykills is false"

This post talks about the transfers. Not where the Marineland orcas are going exactly but very interesting on the other transfers. Like Luna and Stella going to Suma. Rans possible transfer to Loro Parque.

Ive heard many rumors about Loro Parque receiving 2 females but never paid any attention to it until now.

 

[Jambo]

CarolineL on Instagram: "Some news about the transfer : - Marineland orcas will go to Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya and Suma. The orcas will move during annual closure. - At Kamogawa, Luna will stay until her mother give birth (due date 2/3 months) to learn maternal knowledge and than go to Suma. Ran will probably go to Loro Parque due to the affiliation they have. - At Nagoya, Stella will go to Suma (much closer from Nagoya than Kamogawa) as she belongs to Kamogawa and Suma groups whoch ended their affiliated with that facility. (Informations from anonymous trainers) Quelques nouvelles sur le transfert : - Les orques de Marineland iront à Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya et Suma. Les orques bougeront durant la fermeture annuelle 2024. - À Kamogawa, Luna restera jusqu'à ce que sa mère donne naissance (dans 2/3 mois) pour apprendre les connaissances maternelles et elle ira à Suma. Ran ira probablement à Loro Parque en raison de leur affiliation. - À Nagoya, Stella ira à Suma (beaucoup plus proche de Nagoya que Kamogawa) car elle appartient au groupe de Kamogawa et Suma qui ont mis fin à leur affiliation avec cette installation. (Informations de soigneurs anonymes) Algunas noticias sobre los traslados: - Las orcas de Marineland irán a Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya y Suma. Las orcas se trasladaran durante el cierre annual 2024. -En Kamogawa, Luna se quedará hasta que su madre dé a luz (dentro de 2/3 meses) para aprender conocimientos maternales e ira a Suma. Ran probablemente irá a Loro Parque debido a la afiliación que tienen. -En Nagoya, Stella irá a Suma (mucho mas cerca de Nagoya que Kamogawa) como pertenece al grupo de Kamogawa y Suma que terminaron con su afiliación a esa instalación. (Informaciones de cuidadores anónimos) Loro Parque, Marineland, Port Nagoya, Kamogawa, Suma #marineland #orca #orque #killerwhale #dauphin #delfin #dolphin #seaworld #captivity #captivité #delphinarium #seaworldcares #dolphinarium #oceanografic #bottlenosedolphin #delfinario #loroparque #cautividad #cautiverio #mymarineland #blackfish is ******** Don’t #emptythetanks #boycottseaworld #dontbuyaticket #captivitykills is false"

This post talks about the transfers. Not where the Marineland orcas are going exactly but very interesting on the other transfers. Like Luna and Stella going to Suma. Rans possible transfer to Loro Parque.

Ive heard many rumors about Loro Parque receiving 2 females but never paid any attention to it until now.

Interesting to see that Stella is going to Suma. I had assumed she would stay at Nagoya with Lynn. A move to Suma would leave Lynn as the only female at Nagoya unless they acquire Wikie from Antibes; and I'm not sure how well she'd cope as Stella's the only female she currently lives with.

In my previous post, I had floated the possibility of Naja going to Loro Parque as they've long expressed interest for additional females. It's intriguing that Ran is an individual who may be sent there; you would think she would be sent to Suma with Luna.

 

[katinakalinakaterina]

Seems like a big shake up that has been a long time coming. Will be interesting to see how they all end up. I'm not sure how far off Suma is from completion? More parks seem to be popping up all the time. I wonder if Chimelong would be open to receiving "outside" animals, I guess the Shanghai whales were also from Russian waters but the Marineland Antibes whales could be a huge unknown in that situation - they might not be moving there right now but given the Japanese facilities have expressed their desire to work with at least Chimelong? If not the others for breeding purposes it could happen down the line.

Kshamenk has looked to be losing weight for some time from photos, at least he seems to have the 'peanut head' in a lot of them.

Also quite surprised Moskvarium are looking at moving Naja, would have thought they would have exhibited her to the end.

Wuxi's permit for their two whales expires on the 11th October I believe off the top of my head, I think from what I read they had been there around 6? years and they do look like females from the photos of them in the holding area. Apologies, I try to save as much of the Chinese news as possible but it doesn't always save translated so I end up with masses of Chinese text with no way to sort through it.

Loro Parque was holding off on the expansion until after Morgan gave birth to Ula, best guess was that they may have been concerned construction noise/related stress may have been detrimental to her development? Hopefully this won't turn into another blue world, but then again if they can't/don't aquire any more whales I can't see them pouring money into it but that's just my opinion.

Also, still trying to confirm but I believe the dates of birth for 'Katniss'and 'Loki' are 27/01/2022 and 17/04/2021.

 

[Jambo]

More parks seem to be popping up all the time. I wonder if Chimelong would be open to receiving "outside" animals, I guess the Shanghai whales were also from Russian waters but the Marineland Antibes whales could be a huge unknown in that situation.

Considering they seemingly have a successful pod going already, I'm not sure they would want to add any more individuals, at least in the meantime. I don't even know if they'd have the space tbh.

Also quite surprised Moskvarium are looking at moving Naja, would have thought they would have exhibited her to the end.

I too am very surprised, but it's good to hear Naja will be heading to another facility. Considering the French orcas are heading to Japan, I reckon her best chance is at Shanghai/Zhengzhou, but wouldn't rule out Loro Parque as well.

Wuxi's permit for their two whales expires on the 11th October I believe off the top of my head, I think from what I read they had been there around 6? years and they do look like females from the photos of them in the holding area. Apologies, I try to save as much of the Chinese news as possible but it doesn't always save translated so I end up with masses of Chinese text with no way to sort through it.

The Wuxi individuals have been there since 2017 yes. Quite a while. If the expiry date is indeed October 11 than they should be being moved asap.

Loro Parque was holding off on the expansion until after Morgan gave birth to Ula, best guess was that they may have been concerned construction noise/related stress may have been detrimental to her development? Hopefully this won't turn into another blue world, but then again if they can't/don't aquire any more whales I can't see them pouring money into it but that's just my opinion.

It seems Loro Parque are looking to acquire additional females, so I'm hopeful this will still be going ahead. I *assume* the recent deaths of Kohana and Skyla have lead Loro Parque to believe there's no need for expansion unless they actually acquire additional females and breed. But I don't know, those are just my thoughts on the situation.

Also, still trying to confirm but I believe the dates of birth for 'Katniss'and 'Loki' are 27/01/2022 and 17/04/2021.

That's what I've heard as well; apparently Chimelong themselves confirmed it during a video.

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

CarolineL on Instagram: "Some news about the transfer : - Marineland orcas will go to Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya and Suma. The orcas will move during annual closure. - At Kamogawa, Luna will stay until her mother give birth (due date 2/3 months) to learn maternal knowledge and than go to Suma. Ran will probably go to Loro Parque due to the affiliation they have. - At Nagoya, Stella will go to Suma (much closer from Nagoya than Kamogawa) as she belongs to Kamogawa and Suma groups whoch ended their affiliated with that facility. (Informations from anonymous trainers) Quelques nouvelles sur le transfert : - Les orques de Marineland iront à Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya et Suma. Les orques bougeront durant la fermeture annuelle 2024. - À Kamogawa, Luna restera jusqu'à ce que sa mère donne naissance (dans 2/3 mois) pour apprendre les connaissances maternelles et elle ira à Suma. Ran ira probablement à Loro Parque en raison de leur affiliation. - À Nagoya, Stella ira à Suma (beaucoup plus proche de Nagoya que Kamogawa) car elle appartient au groupe de Kamogawa et Suma qui ont mis fin à leur affiliation avec cette installation. (Informations de soigneurs anonymes) Algunas noticias sobre los traslados: - Las orcas de Marineland irán a Kamogawa Sea World, Port Nagoya y Suma. Las orcas se trasladaran durante el cierre annual 2024. -En Kamogawa, Luna se quedará hasta que su madre dé a luz (dentro de 2/3 meses) para aprender conocimientos maternales e ira a Suma. Ran probablemente irá a Loro Parque debido a la afiliación que tienen. -En Nagoya, Stella irá a Suma (mucho mas cerca de Nagoya que Kamogawa) como pertenece al grupo de Kamogawa y Suma que terminaron con su afiliación a esa instalación. (Informaciones de cuidadores anónimos) Loro Parque, Marineland, Port Nagoya, Kamogawa, Suma #marineland #orca #orque #killerwhale #dauphin #delfin #dolphin #seaworld #captivity #captivité #delphinarium #seaworldcares #dolphinarium #oceanografic #bottlenosedolphin #delfinario #loroparque #cautividad #cautiverio #mymarineland #blackfish is ******** Don’t #emptythetanks #boycottseaworld #dontbuyaticket #captivitykills is false"

This post talks about the transfers. Not where the Marineland orcas are going exactly but very interesting on the other transfers. Like Luna and Stella going to Suma. Rans possible transfer to Loro Parque.

Ive heard many rumors about Loro Parque receiving 2 females but never paid any attention to it until now.

CarolineL is not a reliable source for news like this and is well known in the community for her false information. Stella will not be leaving Nagoya as Kamagoawa just renewed her lease so she will be staying at the aquarium for quite some time. As for Ran and Loro Parque. There is very little evidence to support that these two companies talk amongst each other and let alone send animals between the two parks. I would take everything in this post with a grain of salt as most of it is not on the truthful side.

Update form Chimelong:
A recent news interview with the head trainer at Chimelong has provided some new information on the whales. Most of our information on the names of Chimelong whales is incorrect and was rather a misunderstanding due to translations. Tyson is the father of Yilong and he weighs 6 1/2 tons making him the largest killer whale in captivity (His dorsal fin flops over to his right side). Another one of the males is Kashin who weighs 3 tons (dorsal fin stands up straight). Now switching over to the females. There is a whale named Katinka who is the mother of Yilong and the matriarch of the Chimelong pod. Yilong was born in 2019, Loki in 2021, and Katniss in 2022. Katniss is also the daughter of Katinka. Katinka is not currently pregnant but they would like to breed her again in the next couple years.

 

[Sacchi]

As for Ran and Loro Parque. There is very little evidence to support that these two companies talk amongst each other and let alone send animals between the two parks.

I'll second that.
There is more history between Loro Parque and Chimelong, than Loro Parque and Kamogawa. I can see LP importing a female from Chimelong in the coming years.

That's interesting about the Chimelong whale names, thanks.

 

[Jambo]

I'll second that.
There is more history between Loro Parque and Chimelong, than Loro Parque and Kamogawa. I can see LP importing a female from Chimelong in the coming years.

That's interesting about the Chimelong whale names, thanks.

Interesting to hear.

I would be very surprised if LP were to phase out their orcas, and there were rumours that LP would eventually obtain some of the Russian orcas.

 

[CMTM]

Tyson is the father of Yilong and he weighs 6 1/2 tons making him the largest killer whale in captivity (His dorsal fin flops over to his right side).

This would likely make him the largest animal in human care in general, correct?

 

[lintworm]

This would likely make him the largest animal in human care in general, correct?

Not quite, there ist at least one larger Asian elephant bull and probably more. Thisiam in Knies Kinderzoo in Switzerland reportedly weighs 6.8 tons.

 

[Jonathan Petersson]

This would likely make him the largest animal in human care in general, correct?

I believe there are some whale sharks that are larger but I am not sure. Chimelong has another male who nickname is Nak (unsure what his full name is). From photos he appears to be larger then Tyson which would make him the largest mammal in human care. He can be recognized as he is the only orca at Chimelong with a dorsal fin that leans to the right. On another note, the smallest orca at Chimelong excluding the calves is a female who's nicknamed is So but her full name is unknown. These nicknames are often shorter version of their full names as see with Tyson being Ty, Katinka being Kat, and Kaishin being Kai.

 

[CMTM]

I believe there are some whale sharks that are larger but I am not sure. Chimelong has another male who nickname is Nak (unsure what his full name is). From photos he appears to be larger then Tyson which would make him the largest mammal in human care. He can be recognized as he is the only orca at Chimelong with a dorsal fin that leans to the right. On another note, the smallest orca at Chimelong excluding the calves is a female who's nicknamed is So but her full name is unknown. These nicknames are often shorter version of their full names as see with Tyson being Ty, Katinka being Kat, and Kaishin being Kai.

Is there a thread on this? I've suddenly become very interested in just how big the biggest animal in human care is. The fact that there is an elephant that's a full ton heavier than the (2nd?) largest whale is just bananas.

 

[Aelita]

Interesting to hear.

I would be very surprised if LP were to phase out their orcas, and there were rumours that LP would eventually obtain some of the Russian orcas.

By history, you would mean because Loki was hand-reared, and inferring that Loro Parque consulted in his hand-rearing? Would make logical sense.

Something else in general I do know, is that because the marine mammal care industry is so tight knit; is that vast majority of the facilities look to SeaWorld for animal care direction/advice.

Makes me wonder if they also consulted behind the scenes not just regarding Loki but the Chimelong pod as a whole.