Damian Aspinall: You all know my views on zoos prove me wrong

Damian Aspinall said:
Thank you for your measured response much appreciated. I have absolutely no doubt that some institutions have come to the realisation that what they were doing was not conservation and have taken steps to correct this as you say in your response and this is definitely a step in the right direction. My concerns even with these institutions which i am sure as you say have the best intentions is twofold, Is it really ok in todays age to keep any animal in captivity because some people after visiting zoos will have a positive view on conservation. I really struggle with this as i believe the price that animals pay for this is just to high as on the whole there welfare in zoos is simply not good enough. Secondly the value of education is thrown about very liberally when i have really not seen any empirical independent evidence that says Zoos educate effectively and especially enough to justify the hundreds of thousands of caged animals in our world. every time someone quotes a study to me after careful reading it is either written by or paid by zoos or summarises that there is no hard evidence to justify zoos purely for education. Lastly if people and children can become fascinated and interested with dinosaurs etc then why is it different for Elephants or any other animal .
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I would suggest you get a different reaction from learning about dinosaurs and seeing Elephants in the flesh. I have seen alot of Asian Elephants but the awe of seeing the bull at Berlin Zoo a few years back will stick with me forever (the size of him, the perspective you get to view him from). Not every is rich enough to go see these animals in the wild and therefore zoos can inspire a new generation to care for the flora and fauna of the world.

I saw Dolphins in the wild of the UK and honestly it is the best experience I have had with wild animals. Would I get the same seeing them in captivity? Probably yes but after seeing them in the wild probably not the same wow factor.

You cannot replicate that experience of seeing animals in the flesh from TV or books.

While the argument the money would be better spent on in-situ conservation projects has some merits. I would to have ask where does the money come from? Zoos may not spend enough on it (and that is a flaw) but without zoos where do you get the millions of pounds they would spend on exhibit to give to in-situ conservation projects?

Also the spending on unfashionable species would be no existent, as everyone would donate to the bigger charismatic animals. At least with a zoo can spend the money on all sorts of projects because people are donating because they saw an Elephant.

An ideal world zoos would not exist because there would be space and nothing threatening there existence but we do not leave an in an ideal world.

I will continue to support zoos (probably not yours which is a shame as I have loved visiting them in the past, due to your harmful opinions/actions towards the industry) because I love seeing these animals, I love interacting with these animals and I love the work and to support the work they do with species in need in the wild.
 
Damian Aspinall said:
First of all i have no hatred as you suggest my intention is to debate and open a few eyes to the reality of the world. The work above you mention that zoos do which in my opinion is very limited indeed has to justify the existence of zoos in the first place i do not think it does that secondly i can assure you there are countless examples of poor animal welfare in even in the supposedly best zoos. So your argument with respect is naive. We also spend a lot of time teaching people in native areas however i would never suggest you need zoos to do this.thank you for your comment
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Like what? Your treating zoos like they are prisons but they aren't they are safehavens for animals where we can care for them, learn more about them, and educate the public. Also many zoos do the same as you by releasing animals and helping their numbers in the wild which there is evidence of (African spray toad, Przewalski's wild horse, Pere Davids deer, etc.) So to say zoo's contributions to the world is limited is a lie.
 
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Just a point that I don’t think has really been mentioned so far, but how would the vast majority of people see for example an elephant were it not for zoos?
 
amur leopard said:
Just a point that I don’t think has really been mentioned so far, but how would the vast majority of people see for example an elephant were it not for zoos?
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You spend a lot of money to go to India and then see a elphant in either the wild or one in some entertainment orientated show.
 
Ursus said:
You spend a lot of money to go to India and then see a elphant in either the wild or one in some entertainment orientated show.
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During which point very little money likely goes into their conservation.

But on that point of elephants, this question has been proposed a lot on here and elsewhere and I'm curious for an answer: if zoo breeding programs are so awful and animals are not to be used for people's amusement, how come the zoos continue to keep and breed the two biggest crowd drawers: elephants and Meerkats?

~Thylo
 
Westcoastperson said:
Like what? Your treating zoos like they are prisons but they aren't they are safehavens for animals where we can care for them, learn more about them, and educate the public. Also many zoos do the same as you by releasing animals and helping their numbers in the wild which there is evidence of (African spray toad, Przewalski's wild horse, Pere Davids deer, etc.) So to say zoo's contributions to the world is limited is a lie.
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Zoos are prisons there is simply no getting away from that and as for safe haven 95% of mammals in zoos are not even threatened there are only 45 critically endangered mammals in zoos so the safe haven argument has no merit.Plus of those 45 species only 3-4 are actually viable the others are hybrids inbred or genetically not viable.
A few zoos release some smaller species and even fewer release larger mammals but how does this justify zoos especially when they could of been protected in the wild in the first place.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
During which point very little money likely goes into their conservation.

But on that point of elephants, this question has been proposed a lot on here and elsewhere and I'm curious for an answer: if zoo breeding programs are so awful and animals are not to be used for people's amusement, how come the zoos continue to keep and breed the two biggest crowd drawers: elephants and Meerkats?

~Thylo
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there is absolutely no reason the have either species in any zoo i agree but if zoos have these species they should do all they can to breed and release back to wild if possible
 
Good to finally have confirmation on his identity. My sincerest appology for the for-ever questioning of your identity. I'm glad I took your word on it then somewhere at the start.

I have a question however for you Damien.

What do you think that other zoos should be doing currently?
Should they join your queste on releasing back species into the wild and to set-up better in-situ locations/facilities for animal protection?

Or what would you like to see them do to step into the right direction
 
Damian Aspinall said:
there is absolutely no reason the have either species in any zoo i agree but if zoos have these species they should do all they can to breed and release back to wild if possible
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That's sort of contradictory to your previous claims that captive breeding, especially of non-endangered species, is wrong... Tell me, what's the conservational value of mass breeding horribly inbred, subspecific-hybrid, least concern Meerkats? I imagine the real answer is the same to why you play with tigers, gorillas, and elephants while spewing that all zoos exploit animals for entertainment: it's only ok when you do it.

~Thylo
 
Ursus said:
Good to finally have confirmation on his identity. My sincerest appology for the for-ever questioning of your identity. I'm glad I took your word on it then somewhere at the start.

I have a question however for you Damien.

What do you think that other zoos should be doing currently?
Should they join your queste on releasing back species into the wild and to set-up better in-situ locations/facilities for animal protection?

Or what would you like to see them do to step into the right direction
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thank you for your question. For me this is all about one step at a time ...firstly i do believe zoos mistakenly or not mislead the public so i think complete transparency and honestly about there collections is a must.I believe if they say they are supporting in situ conservation it must be transparent and measured to see if it effective as that is the reason they give for the zoo and why its conservation. I think if species are hybrids inbred or genetically not viable these species should be phased out altogether. I believe if millions are to be spent on a new enclosure it must be justified that this money cannot be better used protecting the wild..
So much money is wasted by zoos and people genuinely think it benefits the animals in some cases yes but many no.
everybody has to get on board and be willing to own up to past and current mistakes and move forward. Yes i believe ultimately zoos should not exist and any animal in captivity is a travesty of justice to nature... but one step at a time .. hope this helps
 
Damian Aspinall said:
there is absolutely no reason the have either species in any zoo i agree but if zoos have these species they should do all they can to breed and release back to wild if possible
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Your zoo(s) holds both of these species though? You say “there is absolutely no reason to have either species in any zoo”, yet you have 14 Elephants, the largest herd in the UK.

It seems like you need to practice what you preach.
 
Well now that we know your the real Damian Aspinall I just want to say... Hi I’m Dyl, I respectfully disagree with your opinion about zoos but your allowed to have your own opinion and I encourage you to voice it as much as you want.
 
ThylacineAlive said:
That's sort of contradictory to your previous claims that captive breeding, especially of non-endangered species, is wrong... Tell me, what's the conservational value of mass breeding horribly inbred, subspecific-hybrid, least concern Meerkats? I imagine the real answer is the same to why you play with tigers, gorillas, and elephants while spewing that all zoos exploit animals for entertainment: it's only ok when you do it.

~Thylo
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no conservation value in hybrid meerkats and any hybrid completely agree
If you bothered to be polite and asked me why i thought my relationship with the animals helped i would tell you this will be my own view and am perfectly happy for someone else to have a different view. Secondly as you are rude and hostile unless you own up to who you are i will no longer reply to you. Why hide behind a fake name it makes you out to be a coward ..
 
Dyl0526 said:
Well now that we know your the real Damian Aspinall I just want to say... Hi I’m Dyl, I respectfully disagree with your opinion about zoos but your allowed to have your own opinion and I encourage you to voice it as much as you want.
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Hi Dyl thank you for reaching out and happy to discuss any of my views with you
 
TZDugong said:
Your zoo(s) holds both of these species though? You say “there is absolutely no reason to have either species in any zoo”, yet you have 14 Elephants, the largest herd in the UK.

It seems like you need to practice what you preach.
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I have stopped breeding my elephants for reasons stated and i will happily rewild them when the right project comes along. ditto with other species.
I am absolutely trying to practise what i preach however hard that may be
appreciate your skeptism as most people would not.
 
Damian Aspinall said:
I believe if millions are to be spent on a new enclosure it must be justified that this money cannot be better used protecting the wild..
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In what kind of ways do you believe we should spend our money to protect the wild in-situ, with in-situ studies, semi-captive programmes likewise to the sumatran rhinos, or other methods? I am very curious as I am very interested in the entire idea of bringing the captive back to the wild.
 
Damian Aspinall said:
I have stopped breeding my elephants for reasons stated and i will happily rewild them when the right project comes along. ditto with other species.
I am absolutely trying to practise what i preach however hard that may be
appreciate your skeptism as most people would not.
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Thanks for the answer. Is there a timeline for the re-wilding of your Elephants? (I understand if you wouldn’t want answer this question as it is pretty personal, but the concept of re-wilding a species as large and popular as an Elephant is pretty fascinating, at least to me)
 
Ursus said:
In what kind of ways do you believe we should spend our money to protect the wild in-situ, with in-situ studies, semi-captive programmes likewise to the sumatran rhinos, or other methods? I am very curious as I am very interested in the entire idea of bringing the captive back to the wild.
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I believe zoos should spend at least 10% of the gate income directly in in situ conservation especially if it can be measured so we know if it's effective.
For example we protect 1m acres in Gabon and Congo where we have released 70 gorillas by doing this we actually protect the whole eco system so all the animals and flora benefit.chimps have returned for the first time in a 100 years and there is considerably more wildlife now in this areas we protect.
the same for our primate release project. 150 primates release so far.Gorillas survival rate is 93% and similar for the primates.
For me, if for example the Javan rhino was at a point where it was now so rare (which it is i think about 55 are left) there is an argument for some type of captivity. However i would never agree to bring them back to UK to zoos. what i would do is raise the money and prepare an in situ semi wild captive situation managed by the appropriate organisation. and breed and release as needed.
My father bought Sumatran rhino back to UK and it did not go well at all and i always pointed out to him the money we spent we could of been more effective deploying these resources in the wild or semi wild in there natural habitat.hope this helps and thank you for reaching out
 
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