deer killed by sicko at petting zoo

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adrian1963 said:
The death penalty still exsists in the UK for treason-
if you can understand it then it does state that the death penalty should be given to any person or persons that commit the act of killing any of the monarchs subjects should at all times recieve the death penalty. I know the law was changed years ago because of the do gooders (who have no idea) wanted it to because of human rights.
Well it's any persons right to recieve justice and as the bible states a LIFE FOR A LIFE
I would gladly be the person to pull the plug on anyone who commits such a sick crime
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Sorry but the penalty for treason was changed from death to a maximum of imprisonment for life in 1998 under the Crime And Disorder Act.

If you want to bring the Bible into things, Jewish law (based on the Hebrew Bible and the oral law which is based on rabbinic interpretation of the Bible) in practice has no death penalty and I'm sure you don't live your life in literal compliance with everything that is said in the Bible.

For example I'm pretty sure that you don't check new clothes to see if they have the forbidden combination of linen and wool. But of course I may be wrong.

Selectively quoting the Bible to back up an argument is the practice of the worst kind of fundamentalists.
 
Riziki said:
Shorts accidents happen. We may accidently hit a cat while on the road but we could equally hit a man.
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That's the problem - a lot of us like the idea of the death penalty but only for crimes we feel strongly about. Personally, I think if if someone knowingly & incontrovertibly drives too fast and kills a person, then that's murder or manslaughter at least - in its way it is just as premeditated as bashing an animal's head in (drivers have to qualify & pass a test, so they know beforehand what they're getting into).

Getting back on-topic, I do think criminals like this one should be made to pay for what they've done both in a financial & emotional sense. Make them pay a criminal's tax for the rest of their lives for one thing. And I do agree that animal cruelty is a sign that individuals are capable of 'worse' cruelty (if that's possible).
 
I agree with you completely Panthera Puss.
This guy obviousley had to think about what he was doing and he didnt show signs of stopping so he knew what he was out to do.
 
Shirokuma said:
If you want to bring the Bible into things, Jewish law (based on the Hebrew Bible and the oral law which is based on rabbinic interpretation of the Bible) in practice has no death penalty and I'm sure you don't live your life in literal compliance with everything that is said in the Bible.
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Britain is predominantly christian so quoting the bible is fine in this situation IMO (I'm pretty much an athiest BTW ;)) seeing are laws are probably based on the 10 commandments (don't steal, don't kill...).
And I'd have no trouble with life sentences, but human rights people got in the way and are even complaining that prisoners spend "too much time in their cells". Ridiculous :rolleyes:
 
Ash said:
Britain is predominantly christian so quoting the bible is fine in this situation IMO (I'm pretty much an athiest BTW ;)) seeing are laws are probably based on the 10 commandments (don't steal, don't kill...).
And I'd have no trouble with life sentences, but human rights people got in the way and are even complaining that prisoners spend "too much time in their cells". Ridiculous :rolleyes:
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Two things to remember here (and neither are to do with ZOOS so this will be my only post on this subject);

1. Our legal systems are far from perfect and many people committed of awful crimes have been locked up for years only to find (when new evidence comes to light) that they were innocent all along.....an eye for an eye is exactly the sort of old testament nonsense we should be above if we consider ourselves civilized. There will always be the odd 'nutter' in a population of billions but we must keep our anger in proportion. I agree that this sort of thing makes the blood boil but every day hundreds (if not thousands) of people are blown to bits on the basis of their religious differences, which is far more sickening in my opinion.

2. Religion is IMO the source of much evil in this world, and nothing makes my blood boil more than people quoting the bible as a basis for any argument. Might as well quote Harry Potter or Star Wars.
 
I also think it's tosh, I'm just saying it has been an influence on the way laws and that work. I do think there was a point in that quote as people say it's unethical to kill whilst it's in the bible which is where ethics supposedly come from. I probably agreed with it due to the irony :p
 
I don't normally quote the bible but the way I feel on this is not publishable if I was to use any other way.
As for life sentences these are a joke as a life sentence in the UK means 25 years max it's a sorry state of affairs when after only 7 years these people can apply for parole.
I know by a family tragedy!
Surely life should be a minimum of 75 years with no parole.
Sorry didn't know that they'd changed the sentence on treason.
I don't want to be a kill joy but I thought this was a zoo forum not a political debate on the death sentence.
 
I agree. To me, life sentence should mean they're in prison until they die, not the excuse for a life sentence we get in Britain.
 
Ash said:
To me, life sentence should mean they're in prison until they die, not the excuse for a life sentence we get in Britain.
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Shall we end it here on something we can all broadly agree on? :)
 
Zambar said:
Dan, I'm not accepting that there aren't any evil people in the world, no way: I know that Hitler, Saddam, Fritzel, etc., make fictional villains like Goldfinger and Darth Vader look like pansies. But resulting in killing themselves turns round the moral rights. Sorry for quoting Doctor Who here, but there was a line in that saying "if you could decide who lives and who dies, that would make you the monster." What this neo-nazi has committed has hurrendous and as pointed out could lead to human murder, but all I think he deserves is a very long sentence, probably a life one.
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i agree with you here, i am really in 2 minds about bringing back the death penilty, in some way i want to their are lots of people many cointries would like to see dead, but is it fair to take somones life?

I end with a conclusion and a question

At the end of the day (obiding by our current laws) this man should serve longer that 22 months

If Britain Captured Bin Laden, would we kill him, if we did, we would have bought back the death penilty. If you think about it we probably would kill him?
 
Cat-Man said:
If Britain Captured Bin Laden, would we kill him, if we did, we would have bought back the death penilty. If you think about it we probably would kill him?
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1) If Britain captured Bin Laden, the first thing we would do is hand him over to the US (or possibly the UN).

2) If we did, for some reason, keep and try him, there would be no legal grounds to have him executed in this country as the sentence for murder is life imprisonment - not death.
 
zoogiraffe said:
No was been serious I personnaly think we should have the death penalty brought back in this country,for crimes where somebody or something has been killed un-lawfully,and if I had my way this idiot would be the first.As I don`t think we should pay for idiots like this to get food and shelter at my expense!
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I completely agree with you. What happened to the old traditions of 'an eye for an eye' and all that, eh?
 
The scariest thing of all is that there have been psychological tests done to show that people who committ horrific and delibrate acts of cruelty to animals eventually committ the same type of crimes against people. That makes me think an animals life should have a bit more value to it then 22 months and perhaps this guy has some serious underlying psychological problems. As someone else said, genuine accidents do happen (I'm waiting to be rear ended as a slow down for slow reacting crows on the road) but I don't think anyone of us on here would go out and do anything deliberate to harm any animals or human being!
 
zoogiraffe said:
No was been serious I personnaly think we should have the death penalty brought back in this country,for crimes where somebody or something has been killed un-lawfully,and if I had my way this idiot would be the first.As I don`t think we should pay for idiots like this to get food and shelter at my expense!
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I agree with you. i say eye for an eye lets hit him in the head with a rock and see how he likes it. Prison is a holiday camp anyway you dont have to pay for TV, water, heating. I say they should make an example of this so called man!
 
Or perhaps he should be dragged through the streets and people can throw rocks at him until he's dead? Don't be ridiculous, this is a civilised country in the 20th century, not medieval Europe or Afghanistan under the Taliban.
 
'Petting Zoos'

Interesting how the American term 'Petting Zoo' has suddenly crept into the UK language- until recently in this country these places were 'Children's Zoo's' (or Farms). Then after the recent E Coli scare,when some had to be temporarily closed, I noticed they were all suddenly referred to as 'Petting Zoos/Farms' I wonder what prompted the change...?
 
Shirokuma said:
Or perhaps he should be dragged through the streets and people can throw rocks at him until he's dead? Don't be ridiculous, this is a civilised country in the 20th century, not medieval Europe or Afghanistan under the Taliban.
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So you are saying that 22 months for this type of crime is ok? If you had this happen to one of your animals i bet you would think different. That is the problem we are too civilied you put them in jail for only 22 months and they get free TV yet a wounded soldier in a hospital has to pay £3.50 a day to watch TV. Or what we could do is instead of testing on animals test on these people.
 
Ok, this is my last contribution to this thread. There are lots of things in the world I care about and I spend much of my life engaging with these issues both privately and professionally but zoochat is my refuge and I want to talk about zoos.

But...

Cartman417, you have a typical reactionary response to a liberal argument. If you don't agree with public flogging or hanging or whatever tabloid hysteria currently being whipped up then you are clearly soft on crime and a paid up member of Al Qaeda. Look at how the word 'liberal' is spat out with distain by the American right.

Where did I say that 22 months for this crime is ok? The man is clearly a psychopath who represents a real risk to society and anyone who thinks that a Nazi who wants to kill things will stop at deer is naive at best.

I believe in appropriate sentencing that has both punitive and reformative elements. Clearly there needs to be a balance and I'm not here to argue that the right balance is always struck.

No, I don't believe in leaving people to rot but nor do I believe that a slap on the wrists is sufficient. If my animal or family member had, G-d forbid been hurt or worse, of course I would be angry, I would want to kill the culprit with my own bare hands. But we have a justice system to deal with this; we don't live in the Wild West or Nazi Germany or in a backward fundamentalist theocracy. We live in a society that is on the whole civilised.

I believe a civilisation can be measured in two ways. One, how does it protect those who can't help themselves and two, how does it treat those who don't respect and abide by its laws. Essentially, we have to show that we are better than them. We rise above their abhorrent behaviour and lead by example. Of course if they remain a threat to society then they shouldn’t be allowed to return to their freedom. But giving them bread and water in a dark cell won’t change people. It will only make them worse.

We don't live in a perfect society but I feel it is a lot better than the one we'd have left to people like you.

Ok, down I come from my soap box, back to chatting about zoos.
 
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