Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh zoo

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jelle said:
Does Edinburgh Zoo keep mixed/hybrid chimpanzees or 1 of 3 recognized subspecies (the latter have more conservation value breeding wise)?
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Jelle- I'm not absolutely certain but I'm pretty sure they are mixed race as some of them are 'old stagers' which have been there a long time and they originate from different sources.

I believe EEP recommendations are only to breed West African (P.t.verus) chimps nowadays?- but I don't think zoos in the Uk follow this- they nearly all have mixed race animals in their breeding groups. There are very few (if any), pure 'verus' individuals among them I'd guess.

I wondered if this recommendation was why Dudley Zoo have not obtained any new males. The 6/7 females (originally London's breeding group) have remained unbred ever since they moved to Dudley a number of years ago- there was an original Dudley male living with them to start with but he died without breeding with any of them, and he has never been replaced. It was their orginal intention to build their group up to 30+ animals so I'm puzzled by their attitude here.:confused:
 
It would seem just that chimps of mixed race are no longer allowed to breed and on "phase out" eventually. Sure sounds clinical ..... though! However, I strongly feel that zoos must not seek out the times where lions were allowed to breed indiscriminately to the point where we today can not for sure say if most African lion (98%) is of mixed ssp.

These mixed chimps can still serve a purpose as ambassadors for their species. The closest to Homo sapiens of all the Great Ape species. And also to attract much needed cash for the African Sanctuaries project which supports great ape protection in the field.

I however do hope that given the Bushmeat Crisis in Africa, confiscated chimps of known provenance can be relocated to zoos both inside and outside Africa. Thus breeding groups of all chimp subspecies could be build up. Besides new genetic testing is making it easier on managers to distinguish between the different subspecies (the prime technique is only able to differentiate the verus out of the rest). Newer techniques of DNA sampling are more promising in this respect.

If only some UK zoos would make the effort to build up pure bred subspecies groups that would be something. Currently, most are not even allowed to breed, unless that is you talk of the MonkeyWorld Ape Rescue where they are not really interested in the latter issue at all (actually breeding is not even their prime focus in an endangered species).
 
Hasn't Chester stopped breeding their chimps now (at least for the time being)? I assumed that it was to control the group number, but I guess now that it could be related to only breeding the western subspecies...
 
... so how can Edinburgh stay within these guidelines but still work to increase their chimp group to 40? :confused:
 
Maybe they intend to bring in some new females and 1 or 2 young males from the verus subspecies. They could try to integrate them into the current group and only allow reproduction for the new, purebred animals, by using vasectomie on the other males and putting the mixed females on the pill. Or maybe they plan to bring in a group of verus chimps, but keep both groups seperated indefinately? Not sure this is possible with the new enclosure, though.
 
How many western chimps are there in the UK at the moment, its going to take a long time to phase them all out isnt it
 
Yassa said:
Maybe they intend to bring in some new females and 1 or 2 young males from the verus subspecies. They could try to integrate them into the current group and only allow reproduction for the new, purebred animals, by using vasectomie on the other males and putting the mixed females on the pill.
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That's exactly the scenario I came up with...!! :)

Does anyone know what Edinburgh plans for the chimps as far as increasing the group size is concerned?
 
ZooMania said:
How many western chimps are there in the UK at the moment, its going to take a long time to phase them all out isnt it
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I have no idea. I don't know how you can tell which is which apart from possibly DNA testing. Young 'verus' chimps have a distinctive dark 'mask' around the eyes and nose but it fades with age.

More information on current zoo policy for chimpanzees would be interesting.
 
They are going to do DNA test on theres to see what they have then bring in westerns and most likely sterilise the hybrids. Wether they keep this group seperate depends on wether or not new animals will integrate fully into their group already!

It would be interesting to find out the origin of all the chimps at monkey world as im sure there are bound to be pure westrns there!
 
kiang said:
Just read my e-mail from Ian Valentine at Edinburgh, this guy keeps pulling the new animals out of the bag, just arrived this weekend are North American tree porcupine, which i presume will go in the now vacant red panda enclosure. The Japanese serow are going into the vacant takin enclosure and their enclosure will be used for a new group of swamp wallabies, which will be ideal with the koala/Australian aviary right next door.
I had asked him for his reactions to the macaque shooting and the Amur tigers leaving and to both he reacted with "tomorrows chip papers", and i guess that sums it up!
He did acknowledge that there will be a gap when the Amur tigers head north as Sumatran tigers are not available at the moment, and their enclosure will possibly be used by the jaguar or Amur leopard in the short term.
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I really don't like the current jag exhibit, too much like a small cat enclosure, but it'd be nice to see them in the tiger one. I guess the leopard is in a similar enclosure at the mo, so would probably also be a worthy tiger replacement too.
 
Al said:
They are going to do DNA test on theres to see what they have then bring in westerns and most likely sterilise the hybrids. Wether they keep this group seperate depends on wether or not new animals will integrate fully into their group already!

It would be interesting to find out the origin of all the chimps at monkey world as im sure there are bound to be pure westrns there!
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That's really interesting- sounds the logical way to go. My guess is they may find all their existing ones are hybrid though..

I agree MonkeyWorld may well have some purebred Western chimps- unfortunately I can't see them leaving the park though.:( A pity Edinburgh x Monkeyworld couldn't exchange....:)
 
Are Edinburgh Zoo still attempting to breed their jaguars. Didn't they bring in a black male a few years ago, has there been any success yet?

Also does anyone know when the lion cubs are leaving, do u think any UK zoos will get any of them?
 
Al said:
They are going to do DNA test on theres to see what they have then bring in westerns and most likely sterilise the hybrids. Wether they keep this group seperate depends on wether or not new animals will integrate fully into their group already!

It would be interesting to find out the origin of all the chimps at monkey world as im sure there are bound to be pure westrns there!
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It would be typical that you get the group integrate, but a hybrid male would be dominant male! If they want to build a pure bred group, then maybe keeping them separate would be a better option.
 
taun said:
It would be typical that you get the group integrate, but a hybrid male would be dominant male! If they want to build a pure bred group, then maybe keeping them separate would be a better option.
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Yes you are right. One of the oldest existing males would almost certainly take top rank being already established in the group. Other males would almost certainly get a chance to mate as well though as he can't be looking everywhere at once..;) I'd rather see them try one single group. They could still segregate purebred partners together at night or when a female was in oestrus to facilitate mating if there were any problems in that direction.
 
I guess it depends on numbers introduced to a group. In the case of monkeyworld when they mixed two large groups. If the adult pure bred male was a large individual and the non-pure bred males were castrated I would say there would be a chance he could dominate. Plus female chimps will often mate with more than one male. As you say pertinax prhaps seperating off females in oestrus for a time would work!
 
Two groups equal in size would probably integrate better than if one was a lot smaller. Another way they could ensure the purebreds breed is to take out the cross-race males until the purebred male(s) have established their superiority. Then reintroduce them sterilised- I think I'd prefer vasectomies to castration- less drastic on old males and it wouldn't affect their behaviour.

Ever read 'Chimpanzee Politics'?
 
no but sounds interesting! a vasectomy would be better your right!
 
You should read it. Its all about the setting up of a large group of chimps at Arnhem Zoo in the Netherlands, using small groups of chimps from traditional zoo backgrounds to form the first(?) large colony in a European zoo.

One problem they had initially was that they introduced three adult males quite late on, when the larger female group was already established. Even though they were adults, it took the males several months to gain their supremacy and only then because the most dominant aggressive female, who egged the others on to continually attack the new males, was taken out temporarily to allow them to establish themselves.

The chapters on the complicated 'power struggles' between the males are particularly interesting.
 
that really sounds like a fantastic read! will have to try and get a copy!:D
 
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Its a very good book. The author is Franz de Waal, he is a primate researcher/scientist now based in America and was studying the colony during the period when it was being set up.
One of the male chimps comes to a very dark end eventually....
 
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