Franklin Zoo (Closed) Elephant Kills Woman at Franklin Zoo

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NZ Jeremy said:
But is she in good health? Direct quote from Helen Schofield when Jumbo arrived at FZ - "we have a healthy elephant here".

Some of the stories reference foot problems, everyone knows how quickly they can escalate in elephants. Nobody has seriously said that Jumbo had foot problems when she arrived at FZ. One of the beauties of the circus environment is that elephants don't normally suffer from the foot problems that zoo elephants often do. This is because they move from town to town, substrate to substrate, are not kept on concrete for extended periods of time and have much more exercise than zoo elephants usually do. The grounds on which they are kept just don't get time to accumulate the bacteria that the intensive housing of zoo elephants permits.

Any elephant that has been isolated and chained for decades is going to have severe zoonosis and behaviour problems.
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Demonstrably wrong. Zoonoses are diseases transmitted animal to human [or vice versa]. Nobody is suggesting that Jumbo has infected anyone or been infected by anyone. Her behaviour is no better [or worse] than many zoo African elephants. That's just the way Africans are. The fact that she was so well bonded with Tony Ratcliffe is proof positive that she did not consider herself "isolated". Maybe she does now that she no longer has him in her life. Ethologists accept that gregarious and/or herd animals can bond well with species other than their own. Another reason, perhaps, why she should stay in NZ.
 
Jumbo has never had foot problems, well not while in Tony's care anyway. The rumour mill surrounding circus animals over the last 15yrs has been very active. Animal rights, the NZ public and zoo staff all sat with opinion and judgement. I always found the MAF inspector's reasonable upon the many visits I was present for at Whirling's Circus. However the policy writer of the welfare code back then was a different story.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and especially when I see respect shown to him as he deserves. No one in this country has handled as many elephants as he has in his life and it all happened without a Degree or PHD.

The relationship between Tony and Jumbo has been under estimated by all concerned. Sadly, I like many others who new this day would come, still have no ability to persuade the Degree's and PHD's that still the best educated decision can be wrong and there should be no bias given to where knowledge and experience is obtained.
 
I guess I should add I was with Tony from the late 90's until Whirlings closed its doors. I was involved with all the animals especially the lions and Jumbo. I presented our input into the welfare code when Labour were in power.
Only those targeted while in circus with animals will know the pressures endured in the last decade.
 
kiwipo said:
Amazing as it may seem to you, there is more than one David in the world. :D
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just making sure. After all, you wouldn't want people to think you were making things up about your life would you.....
 
Steve Robinson said:
The fact that she was so well bonded with Tony Ratcliffe is proof positive that she did not consider herself "isolated". Maybe she does now that she no longer has him in her life. Ethologists accept that gregarious and/or herd animals can bond well with species other than their own. Another reason, perhaps, why she should stay in NZ.
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It is a pity that this elephant could not be treated like the Bullens elephants who were transferred to Australia zoo. Their handler stayed with them. If Tony had been included in her management it looks like everyone including the elephant would be better off.
 
Toronto zoo has asked PAWS to provide necropsy reports and carry out testing on their elephants to prove there is no TB risk before sending their elephants there. PAWS has said that is an unreasonable request and not likely to happen.
 
I was led to understand that Africans are quite frequently carriers of TB? The TB issue came up as an import standard of USDAW but, as it is already in the States and at PAWS, I'm not altogether clear why is this such an issue.
 
NeilE said:
Jumbo has never had foot problems, well not while in Tony's care anyway. The rumour mill surrounding circus animals over the last 15yrs has been very active. Animal rights, the NZ public and zoo staff all sat with opinion and judgement. I always found the MAF inspector's reasonable upon the many visits I was present for at Whirling's Circus. However the policy writer of the welfare code back then was a different story.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and especially when I see respect shown to him as he deserves. No one in this country has handled as many elephants as he has in his life and it all happened without a Degree or PHD.

The relationship between Tony and Jumbo has been under estimated by all concerned. Sadly, I like many others who new this day would come, still have no ability to persuade the Degree's and PHD's that still the best educated decision can be wrong and there should be no bias given to where knowledge and experience is obtained.
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Well if Mila where to stay in FZ, maybe Tony, should,could have a part to play?

If Mila has to move, the fact that someone donated money in the past in U.S. proves my point that philanthropists are still about.
 
YOu`re right CAdders, it isn`t. The elephants at PAWS are not TB positive, not sick, and those that have been exposed to TB (without getting sick) are even housed away from the African elephants. The African elephants at PAWS have never been exposed to TB. There are plenty of elephants that have been exposed to TB in many AZA zoos and also in many circusses (hell, all of Ringlings 50+ elephants have been exposed to TB since decades) and no one makes a big deal about it...
Its just zoo people being pissed that someone who is not a member of their club made a decision about their elephants - the "someone" being Toronto City officials, the organization which owns & funds the zoo. But while the Toronto zoo is happy to take the money, they are outraged that the organizaton that owns and runs the zoo tells them what to do...

I hope Mila gets to PAWS soon. I don`t get why that needs more evaluating about "whats best for her". Shouldn`t that process have been completed years ago? Shouldn`t there already be extended records about her medical condition to decide if she is healthy for travel?? I don`t get this at all. And I don`t buy the argument that she should stay alone just because she was always alone. There are so many elephants that have been kept alone since infancy or for many decades that bonded well with other elephants. Just look at Maggie at PAWS. Even if this fails with Mila, she wouldn`t be worse off then she is now.
 
Jarkari said:
Toronto zoo has asked PAWS to provide necropsy reports and carry out testing on their elephants to prove there is no TB risk before sending their elephants there. PAWS has said that is an unreasonable request and not likely to happen.
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That is not correct. PAWS has stated that they offered the full medical records of all their elephants a number of times. The Toronto zoo manager even confirmed to the press that he was offered these records a few days ago but refused to look into them on advice of his lawyer (what the heck?!). What PAWS considers as unreasonable is the newest request by zoo officials to provide are all medical records of all animals, wild or captive, (not just elephants!), from their facility in the last 5 years.
 
I will try to find the quote from PAWS boss and post it. As for Mila, an animal that has only had human contact for thirty years, it could be very damaging for her mental health to be sent to PAWS. i know of two elephants here in Australia that just arent interested in socializing with other elephants one of which killed another when introduced. They need to determine if she's sociable before potentially wasting money sending her anywhere and unfortunately there is no way that can be determined. you could be sending her to ten years of mental torment. Does PAWS have the facilities to house her alone ?
 
as long as it took him to meet a "real" chimp
then back behind bars to reminisce about the life and family he once had
 
Not much time to reminsce, though.

Did he actually survive for more than one year in the lovely, natural sanctuary???
 
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