Franklin Zoo (Closed) Elephant Kills Woman at Franklin Zoo

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ToddNZ said:
Someone new to condition her would be stressful??? Really?
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Do you work with animals Todd? Here it can take up to three years working with elephants before your even allowed free contact with them. trust is a huge thing for these animals and it can take years to build it. would you let a stranger lock you in a box? Even though Jumbo is used to travelling i firmly believe it is her trust in Tony to keep her safe that has allowed her to travel the road for so long without an incident.

For example my family will let my animals out in to their enclosure and feed them and lock them away again when I am not home but I am the only person that can touch my male if he needs to be caught up and have to hold him for veterinary treatment. I know I would be asking for trouble if i expected someone else to do this. someone would get hurt. I have knocked back a couple of jobs overseas working with elephants because i know nobody could give them the care they deserve other than myself and the quarantine period to take them with me would probably stress them to death i've only had my animals for 12 months. It saddens me to imagine how Jumbo must be feeling after 30 years.

Tony was wronged big time by the sounds of things. And still wants to do anything he can to help. He knows he is the best one for the move and has made a more than fair offer. he also exceeds the selection criteria for the advertised job.

Im also a believer that elephants rarely do anything by accident. yes they may slip and land on someone but During her circus life Jumbo regularly had people under her or around her feet. she is aware of her size and strength and my persobal belief is that what happened to Helen, as horribly sad as it is, happened because Jumbo wanted it to. I feel bad for saying that but.i feel that is how it is. I am more than Happy to be corrected by Frank or Steve on this one though if they feel differently.
 
Jakari this forum is stressing me out, I might just die.

Yes I have read through the Tony propaganda on this forum , all very warm and fuzzy.

I just can't see EPI approving Tony to be involved in any capacity.
 
Steve Robinson said:
Sure has - particularly the hilarious scene where the cruel circus boss goes into the railroad car with a bullhook and an adult elephant - and emerges victorious with the elephant laying prostrate on the floor of the car!

A mate of mine got thrown out of a cinema in South Africa for laughing out loud during that scene while all those around him were near tears.
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I hadn't seen the whole movie, but since reading your post I have gone and looked at that bit.

Anyone who thinks a man can do serious harm to an animal the size of an elephant with a short pointed stick and hook is deluded, even if any animal would stand and take it.
 
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Jakari makes sense in what he says , jUMBO meant what happened , it is sad but true , the lady in question , would not listen to any one or sound advice , and it seems her sister is heading along the same path , she knows in her own mind who is best equipped . to do the entire move , regretfully the lies from the past will not allow her to do what is 100% correct for the safety of all concerned including Jumbo .If it goes wrong and some one gets hurt their will be some one held to account for the entire saga ,I feel certain the Coroner will be damming of what has been allowed to go on , M.A.F. and the N.Z.R.S.P.C.A. are as guilty as sin , they should have monitored the situation more carefully with regard to Jumbo and Helen , after all Tony warned M.A.F. and was told to put his concerns in writing , but until then , they were going to do nothing . Know we start all over again , very sad state of affairs .
 
I would have thought if Mila was handled with protected care it should be safe enough. Elephants are handled this way all the time without problems aren't they?
 
if Helen had worked within the safety of the enclosure designed by Mr Stroud , she would have still been alive today , we cannot understand the women thinking she could control Jumbo with out any advice , back up , or knowledge of her past . Tony sings praises for the wonderful enclosure and house that was built for jumbo , he estimates it would have cost at least $250,000. 00. not bad for a temporary enclosure , or was it ? full marks to Mr Stroud for the design
 
i do not think that the comment by Todd , is in good taste , the info on TONY is not propaganda , the man has endured years of persecution over jumbo , he has been punched so badly his injuries to his face were displayed on the front page of a Country newspaper , had Monkeys set free , Lions cage sabotaged , Bigtop set on fire , Ponies and Donkeys set loose , a brick thrown through his Caravan bedroom window just missing his wifes head by inches , idiots in the elephant enclosure and trailor with jumbo , harassed in public outings , and the saga goes on , how many of you would have stood up and still put yourselves on the line for Jumbo , if she was your love , and then the cheeky lieing Helen goes and changes Jumbos name , commands , and kids Tony , that he should not visit her , because the bond is being broken between him and Jumbo , she has Bruce Ireland working with jumbo and training a team of keepers , and that she would keep TONY updated on her progress, which in two years Helen never comunicated with Tony once ,. then out of the blue Tony is phoned at 5 p.m. or approx advising him Jumbo had just killed Helen , How would you all feel , then the Police tells him to come we may need you , and all the carry on when he arrives , still they want to kick him in the guts , to put it mildly .
 
Well whoever Todd is, he is talking through his backside.

It is obvious to all and sundry what the best outcome would be...PAWS

transfer operation assisted by anyone who is qualified.........again its obvious who is the person,,for safety sake,even if all the near do wells dont like it.


Its Jumbo that comes first. NOTHING ELSE.



Just get on with it ffs
 
frankwilliam said:
i do not think that the comment by Todd , is in good taste , the info on TONY is not propaganda , the man has endured years of persecution over jumbo , he has been punched so badly his injuries to his face were displayed on the front page of a Country newspaper , had Monkeys set free , Lions cage sabotaged , Bigtop set on fire , Ponies and Donkeys set loose , a brick thrown through his Caravan bedroom window just missing his wifes head by inches , idiots in the elephant enclosure and trailor with jumbo , harassed in public outings , and the saga goes on ,
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http://www.epa.govt.nz/Documents/is-incidents-no-2008-2009.pdf

Intruders broke into a circus
elephant trailer freeing animals
including a llama, goat and
miniature horse. Animal rights
messages were painted on the side
of the trailer. January 2009.

The intruders could not release
Jumbo the elephant because of
locks in the trailer.
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that qoute of locks on the trailor was when jumbo was with Loritz ,I am talking about jumbo being with WHIRLINGS CIRCUS , which was Tonys circus
 
Jarkari said:
For example my family will let my animals out in to their enclosure and feed them and lock them away again when I am not home but I am the only person that can touch my male if he needs to be caught up and have to hold him for veterinary treatment.

Im also a believer that elephants rarely do anything by accident. yes they may slip and land on someone but During her circus life Jumbo regularly had people under her or around her feet. she is aware of her size and strength and my persobal belief is that what happened to Helen, as horribly sad as it is, happened because Jumbo wanted it to. I feel bad for saying that but.i feel that is how it is. I am more than Happy to be corrected by Frank or Steve on this one though if they feel differently.
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You have probabaly already said so but what sort of animals do you have?

the only other death caused by an elephant in NZ was when the Auckland Zoo elephant killed her keeper, apparently she was swinging her head from side to side as elephants do, and as he climbed through the poles of her enclosure she swung into him, launching him head first into the concrete wall and killing him. That was deemed to be an accident at the time.
Certainly if she had wanted to make sure of killing him she had ample opportunity while he would have been inside the enclosure with her.
I'm not sure if the incident was investigated with any depth though, I have never seen much more on it than what I have just written.

Wild elephants occasionally cause harm by accident, particularly to their young calves who get trampled and crushed. But of course that's completely different to what happened at Franklin where the elephant apparently did deliberately chase her and pick her up.

Was one of Jumbo's tricks picking up human's in her trunk? A lot of circus elephants did that sort of thing, along with holding people with their mouths, and putting their feet on the heads of people lying on the ground.
All potentially deadly if the elephant decided to add more force.
 
kiwipo said:
Was one of Jumbo's tricks picking up human's in her trunk? A lot of circus elephants did that sort of thing, along with holding people with their mouths, and putting their feet on the heads of people lying on the ground.
All potentially deadly if the elephant decided to add more force.
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Jumbo was never trained to pick up humans that I am aware of.

One of the several reasons why I have discounted the "eyewitness" accounts that we discussed earlier. The elephant's actions were not only misinterpreted by Dr Schofield but also by many of the people who saw Jumbo kill her. They could also be misinterpreted by the Coroner when the time comes for an inquest.
 
I just found this statement by Tony Ratcliffe from 26 April.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/kiwilaw-advocates-ltd/tony-ratcliffe-press-release-re-tragic-death-of-helen-schofield-and-re-the-eleph/373530449365131

Tony Ratcliffe - press release - re tragic death of Helen Schofield - and re the elephant's background

26 April 2012



PRESS RELEASE



‘I send my sincere condolences to Helen’s family,’ said Tony Ratcliffe today, commenting on the tragic death yesterday of Dr Helen Schofield at Franklin Zoo. Dr Schofield was crushed by Mila, the former circus elephant known as Jumbo during her circus life.



Mr Ratcliffe says he did not try to barge in or ‘demand entry’ at the Franklin Zoo last night. He was asked to come, after he spoke to police when he learnt about the incident. ‘The police woman asked me to come to the zoo. She said she didn’t know whether I would be allowed in but she asked me to come. I understand there are strong feelings right now. I do think I could help but I am not going to push in.’



Tony Ratcliffe trained and cared for Jumbo for 30 years - after bringing her to New Zealand from the Honolulu Zoo, where she had been seriously harassed and physically attacked by an older, female, Asian elephant.



She was the star of his Whirling Bros circus, and then briefly of Weber Bros circus. Two years ago, Jumbo ended up in SPCA care after Weber Bros reneged on their agreement with Mr Ratcliffe. The SPCA called Mr Ratcliffe in to care for Jumbo again, until Franklin Zoo agreed to take her. Mr Ratcliffe has not seen the elephant since she arrived at Franklin Zoo.



‘I know they have renamed her Mila. To me she is Jumbo.’



Last week Tony Ratcliffe was angry and disappointed with an ‘Animal Academy’ programme which included statements by Dr Helen Schofield about the elephant’s care and condition before she arrived at Franklin Zoo. His lawyer Cheryl Simes had contacted TVNZ and Dr Schofield about this because it was defamatory. He hoped to avoid the need for Court proceedings and maybe sort things out through mediation.



‘I had hoped to be able to discuss this with Helen Schofield because I felt she was misrepresenting the facts. I know we had different views about circus animals. I had hoped we could get the facts straight about Jumbo’s background, and then agree to disagree about wider issues, and maybe work together for what was best for Jumbo in her particular situation. Tragically we have lost that opportunity.



‘Helen Schofield’s death is tragic for everyone involved. I cannot comment on how it happened because I was not there and I have not seen the ground or indeed Jumbo.



‘I have handled and worked with over 40 elephants in both circuses and zoos, and the elephants I have been involved with have all had very good handling right from an early age.’



‘Even the tamest and best elephants can kill and maim people, handlers included, and this can happen no matter how well the elephants are treated. Many reasons can be found for accidents and elephant attacks. I do not and will not subscribe to the theory that they don’t attack unless they have been mistreated.



‘I remember our Auckland Zoo elephant, Jamuna, who killed her much loved handler Frank Lane in the zoo elephant house in 1954. I was her last keeper before she died.’



‘Allegations have been repeated through the years – and recently on television – that Jumbo was mistreated while in the circus. I reject those allegations completely.’



‘I cannot speak for other circuses either in New Zealand or overseas.



‘I believe that Jumbo is unique because her complete elephant performance in the circus ring was basic elephant exercises. She did nothing strenuous or difficult in her daily routine around the circus.



‘I trained and managed her using voice and food reinforcement, not punishment.



‘While on the road with the circus, Jumbo was able to dust bathe, wallow, knock down trees, dig holes, rub on lamp posts and display wonderful patterns of behaviour. (We had to pay a bond to council parks and reserves. We always lost the bond because of the holes Jumbo had dug to wallow in, and the trees she had damaged.) She swam in the rivers and sea and played in sand on many occasions. She was hosed or washed down daily, often by the local fire brigade wherever we were visiting.



‘She was never held on asphalt or concrete.



‘Jumbo had a variety of handlers, who handled and cared for her very well.



‘Jumbo communicated with her handlers - including my wife and me - with a soft low-pitched rumbling. If she was disturbed by intruders she would tap her trunk on the ground and roar like a lion.



‘She would bang the side of her trailer for attention or more food at night. We used to say, “Jumbo is ringing for the butler,” who was normally me or one of our staff.



‘One day she showed me when she had a sore tooth. She guided my hand with her trunk, to the offending molar at the back of her mouth. I pulled it out and she rumbled her thanks to me.



‘Jumbo has had a variety of people work her in the ring, including Frank Boynton as our main handler. He remained on call to us even after he retired from circus life.



‘While she was with us, her diet was fruit, vegetables, pumpkins, carrots, cabbages, and so on, plus grass, grazing and hay, both lucerne and meadow hay.



‘Jumbo has been trained for many television commercials and public appearances, including shopping centre appearances. She always enjoyed this interaction.



‘Our circus itineraries were planned with the animals in mind. We seldom did more than one large town or centre a week. In some instances we would show 2 towns a week, but not very often. We tried to travel no more than 50 km in one move. A 100 km move was recognised by us as a big move, so it was only done about four times a year. Our longest moves were New Plymouth to Te Kuiti, as an example - that was because the towns in between were too small for us to show.



‘The animals always travelled together in the first convoy, and I was always first to arrive and lay out the animal enclosures.



‘My circus Whirling Bros had a very good portable tape barrier, that took no more than 30 minutes to erect and the same to dismantle and pack away. Jumbo was in it most of her day – on grass. The exception was when S.A.F.E. protests were being held, because of the unpredictable behaviour of some protesters (not all).



‘Jumbo was always restrained in her housing at least one hour before each performance. It was a way of getting her fed in a very peaceful situation, out of the public gaze and noise. It also kept her clean from mud and dust before her performance. Most importantly, it was more secure for her protection from the public, who on a few occasions took it upon themselves to get in Jumbo’s enclosure with her to feed and photograph her.



‘Jumbo was usually only shackled overnight, as a security measure. She was not shackled for hours during the day.



‘Many times, animal rights protesters threatened the circus and went behind barriers and set animals loose. We had to ensure Jumbo was secure at all times when her handlers were not on site.



‘My brother Robin Ratcliffe built the trailer in which Jumbo was first housed and transported after we imported her to New Zealand. He is a leading trailer manufacturer in this country. This trailer was capable of transporting three elephants. Its size and space was more than adequate for keeping Jumbo. It was approved by M.A.F. for all her growing years.



‘I travelled in the back of the trailer with Jumbo for months when she travelled. From day one, she travelled very well and showed little if any signs of distress.



‘The drivers for the elephant and other animal-related units were either myself or very carefully selected staff. For many years Frank Boynton (elephant handler from Ridgways) was the elephant driver. When Jumbo first came out of quarantine the driver was Transport Manager Frank Anderson, who has since passed away.



‘Jumbo has been a very good traveller and has been to New Caledonia and Fiji many times, by sea. On every occasion I travelled with three other staff on the ship, and Jumbo on calm days was taken out of her trailer onto the ship’s deck to walk around.



‘I love that elephant. She has been my life.’





Contact: Cheryl Simes (barrister, Kiwilaw Advocates Ltd) – on the basis that Mrs Simes will take any questions and obtain Mr Ratcliffe’s response. 07 839 0911 / 021 701 838 / kiwilaw.cheryl@gmail.com
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Why was Mila held with an Asian elephant at Honolulu Zoo?
 
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