zooboy28
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There are a number of reasons why the two species are not kept together, it is certainly a frowned upon practice in most western zoos today. Having said that, it was probably pretty common in the 50s.
Franklin Zoo (Closed) Elephant Kills Woman at Franklin Zoo
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There are a number of reasons why the two species are not kept together, it is certainly a frowned upon practice in most western zoos today. Having said that, it was probably pretty common in the 50s.
bear in mind that it was 1976 when the elephant went to Honolulu from London Zoo, and she left for NZ in 1978. It's not like talking about keeping elephants in a zoo in 2010 or something.
You would need to ask the Honolulu Zoo staff of that era. Jack Throp was the Director back then before his stint at Taronga.
You would have to be aware that it was a different zoo [and circus] world back then.
Zoos and circuses have moved ahead. Some activists need to do likewise.
Thank you for finding and posting that.
Hopefully it should be a revelation for some of you.
frankwilliam
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I think the time has come to ask Jenny Chung what is happening to all of the money raised and why the establishment is holding jumbo without Tony with her , the Animal rights movement are two faced , in one moment they say that elephants and animals should not live alone , in another they cut off her human companion Ton Ratcliffe , M.A.F. too , who have changed their name to M.P.I. are two faced and they were the ones who stipulated this in the code which they bullied Tony to work under , now they walk around with dark glasses , and again want to say Tony should not be involved with Jumbo , if they did their job with WEBERS LORITZ , jUMBO WOULD HAVE NOT BEEN DUMPED ON A HELPLESS WOMEN , when that didnt work she was dumped on the NZRSPCA , then passed on to Helen Schofeild , the end result a tragic disaster with Helen losing her life , how long does it take for all this to bring the people of NEW ZEALAND to the truth , because i am tired of all the carry on , get on with it , and get jumbo back to her mate
frankwilliam, I believe Loritz intended for the elephant to go to Franklin Zoo but the enclosure wasn't ready, hence the stint in Helensville as the enclosure was built. Definitely not a try one, when that doesn't work try another, then when that doesn't work try FZ.
Also, the elephant's name was Mila before Tony changed her name to Jumbo, so I don't see why that deserves any criticism either.
And Mila wasn't ever alone, in fact she's probably had lots more people attending to her every whim after she left the circus than she'd had for years. There are lots of people capable of working with her, and are doing so right now. Tony isn't the only person who can. He abandoned the elephant if what I've read in these posts is correct, by allowing her time with Loritz to be under his command and not insisting on or finding others to work her when he was with her. It's all to easy to blame Loritz for not doing so when it seems they couldn't do anything without Tony.
Having said that, I'm really interested in the elephant-human bond which I'm certain Tony had with Jumbo and I'd really like to read Tony's book. Does anyone know where I can get a copy?
Also, the elephant's name was Mila before Tony changed her name to Jumbo, so I don't see why that deserves any criticism either.
And Mila wasn't ever alone, in fact she's probably had lots more people attending to her every whim after she left the circus than she'd had for years. There are lots of people capable of working with her, and are doing so right now. Tony isn't the only person who can. He abandoned the elephant if what I've read in these posts is correct, by allowing her time with Loritz to be under his command and not insisting on or finding others to work her when he was with her. It's all to easy to blame Loritz for not doing so when it seems they couldn't do anything without Tony.
Having said that, I'm really interested in the elephant-human bond which I'm certain Tony had with Jumbo and I'd really like to read Tony's book. Does anyone know where I can get a copy?
zooboy28
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Your local library might be a good idea. There is a copy on trademe too.
If that is true, how come she was able to kill one of them?
frankwilliam
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Sharonbm , jumbos name was never ever Mila , I cant recall what her name was , but i know it was not Mila , and as far as i know from Tony and reading between the lines Jumbo may have been fed well , housed , some times when Jumbo chose to go in , and other times stayed out side hoping Tony would come and take her into her house and go through her ritual good night , these are things Helen and Webers would not have noticed , I know how meticulous Tony was with jumbo , I would never agree with you or any one that Helen looked after her better , if jumbo had loved her the tragedy would not have occured QOUTE TONY , Elephants choose who they like and they bond for life , there was no bond with Helen and there never was going to be one , because Jumbo was never properly understood .
You seem to be reading these posts selectively.
Have you talked to Mrs Chung yet about the Ratcliffe's offer?
frankwilliam
Well-Known Member
WEBERS / LORITZ never honoured their word and even lied about the price they paid to build the trailor , all the steel was sponsered and all they paid for was the labour content and some minor adjustments when they took delivery off it , they would have still kept Jumbo and Tony if they could have got her into AUSTRALIA , any how that does not change jumbos situation know , and all Tony and I would like to see is her safe crating and transition to a Sanctuary in America , Tony has told me several times that both he and his wife would go and stay with jumbo until she was calm and settled hopefully with other elephants , surely after all he has gone through is that not too much to expect for either of them .
sharonbm said:
the names I have seen listed for her were firstly Melanie Kai which I presume was the name given to her by London Zoo, then Mele Kahea which looks like a Hawaiian version of the first name, then Jumbo (a proper circus name if ever there was one), and then Mila which I gather is a version of the Hawaiian/London name she had earlier.frankwilliam said:
This is where the name Mila came from - Jumbo (Mila, Melanie Kai, Mele Kahea), an African Bush elephant at Franklin Zoo and Wildlife sanctuary
My belief is that Mila was her original name before any of the others.
No, I've not spoken with Jenny Chung.
My belief is that Mila was her original name before any of the others.
No, I've not spoken with Jenny Chung.
Because the current owners/managers have spent the last few years telling everyone who will listen how terrible he and the circus was for this elephant.
The whole point of them having the elephant has to do with their beliefs circuses are bad. If they really cared about the elephant they would make him the manager, but their political beliefs will not allow this.They have based their story on the elephant being happier with them and allowing him access would be admitting their lies and that they were wrong.
Also sharonbm I have read every post in this thread and I can not see where you get the ideas such as the following one. You dont seem to have read the same thing I did.
I would like Jenny Chung to itemise the moneys needed to relocate the elephant, the figures of 1.5 to 1.7 million have been stated to ready the elephant for travel, for travel costs, and for quarantine at PAWs.
So I'd like to see that figure broken down to see what exactly the costs are.
I can't see why the elephant needs training to get into a crate when she spent most of her life being transported around in a trailer.
I know how much it costs to air freight race horses to the US, multiply that by six and it still wouldn't come to anywhere near a million.
Quarantine in the US? PAWs apparently has an isolation unit which would be used.
Vet wages to supervise the trip?
How much would it cost to pay a vet for the week or so, and how many vets would volunteer their time for such a project anyway.
Experienced elephant handlers wages.
Again only would need them for a short period, and if they had an ounce of common sense they would simply hire or ask one of the people who have handled her successfully in the past and know her. Tony or Frank for a start.
Transport to and from the airports.
Many transport trucking companies would do this for free just for the publicity, their truck and company name would be plastered all over the news.
So as I say, it would be good to know the breakdown of the costs involved, and how they came about a figure that varies by a couple of hundred thousand.
A few years ago the RNZAF transported a huge crocodile back from Aus for that theme park in Auckland. I don't know if they charged for that, however I remember them saying that the plane was returning pretty much empty anyway.
The New York National guard and the USAF who handle the resupply for Antarctica regularly fly back and forth from NZ and the US in Hercules and Globemaster transports, either of which could easily transport an elephant.
What the situation really needs is for the PM or a cabinet minister to step in, kick Chung and her followers to touch, and get the show on the road.
The New York National guard and the USAF who handle the resupply for Antarctica regularly fly back and forth from NZ and the US in Hercules and Globemaster transports, either of which could easily transport an elephant.
What the situation really needs is for the PM or a cabinet minister to step in, kick Chung and her followers to touch, and get the show on the road.
What kind of a Government have you got in NZ?
Do they listen to the People?
Do the People care?
Does your PM know about this case?
The cost of the airfreight has been donated by the same gentleman who paid for the building of Jumbo's enclosure at FZ.
The cost of the crate will be borne by the Ratcliffes if they get the job of conditioning and moving her.
As recently as this week I was informed that Jenny Chung has raised $300,000 from the public for Jumbo's move to PAWS.
It would be interesting to see where that money has been/will be spent.
In that case Jumbo will be flying soon?
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