Noah's Ark Zoo Farm Elephants

[Paulkarli08]

Elephants..... getting loose on a motorway near you! I can see the headline now!

Maybe they should leave the elephants and other large animals to the collections that ACTUALLY have a clue about animal husbandry and have experience?

 

[LoobyLou]

Elephants..... getting loose on a motorway near you! I can see the headline now!

Maybe they should leave the elephants and other large animals to the collections that ACTUALLY have a clue about animal husbandry and have experience?

And there speaks someone who knows nothing about NAZF or the keepers that work there !!!!!

 

[Paulkarli08]

And there speaks someone who knows nothing about NAZF or the keepers that work there !!!!!

To be honest, I speak as someone who has read/heard enough to make a judgement. However I think elephants is a step too far for the collection. They should maybe concentrate on what they have and build it up slowly instead of going for the huge draw animals from any angle which has caused alot of controversy, but anyway it doesn't bother me in the slightest if they get the elephants or not.

Also, who said I was talking about the keepers? Speculation!

 

[zoogiraffe]

And there speaks someone who knows nothing about NAZF or the keepers that work there !!!!!

So do any of the Keeper`s actually have any experience of working with Elephants,and I mean proper experience of at least 5 years working everyday,not as cover for days off in either FC or PC or both depending on which collection they have worked in.

 

[foz]

Why doesn't the park aim to improve its collection through the addition of smaller, rarer species. I'm talking mongooses (what is the actual plural for mongoose?), civets, endangered bird species etc rather than trying to pull in the larger/popular/demanding animals? I think I'd have a lot more respect for the park if instead of trying to impress visitors with elephants, tigers, lions and rhino's etc it would try and impress people with conservation messages, particularly for more overlooked species.

 

[Maguari]

I'm talking mongooses (what is the actual plural for mongoose?),

You've got it right - correct plural is mongooses.

 

[foz]

You've got it right - correct plural is mongooses.

Thank you Maguari. Happy to learn something new everyday

 

[LoobyLou]

Maybe they should leave the elephants and other large animals to the collections that ACTUALLY have a clue about animal husbandry and have experience?

This implies that the keepers do not have a clue about animal husbandry which is untrue and unfounded !!!

The zoo will be employing keepers that have experience with elephants as i'm sure anyone would agree that they are specialised animals and the welfare of both them and the keepers caring for them is of paramount inportance and will NOT be taken lightly !!!

 

[bazzoobuilder]

Hi Still enjoying bashing the new kids for their inexperience and religious beliefs..... Just like back at school Innit, well who wants to grow up anyway? I don’t for one.
I do honestly enjoy reading all the criticisms and bitching the honest and truthful stuff helps me to improve my performance and encourage others to do the same.
I think for new kids we are improving fast. I would say faster than most other zoos ever did, but then these days you need to. I do want to moan about some of the false statements in this tread but will do that in the next post as I have already rambled on about nothing for too long.

 

[bazzoobuilder]

Speaking as somebody that works there and actually knows a little about Noah’s Ark I would like to point out , for the record;

TriGB we have not “worked with circuses” nor do we have a record of “poor husbandry”....

Gentle Giant We are not continuing our plans “To extend our Bear enclosure” Um.. we don’t have one......

Paulkarli08 “Elephants getting loose on a motor way near you” why would anybody sagest that about any zoo that has had escapes, let alone one that hasn’t?

Well not strictly true when we were still just a farm we did have a wallaby get into the woods bordering the crop fields, but that was years ago and I seem to remember some slightly more serious stuff, far more recently and at more established zoos (therefore more prepared one would think) so how about some of you not making out we do things wrong that we don’t? Can’t you think of things we do actually do wrong to bitch about? Now that would be constructive useful and honest.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

What you fail to realise here: we are not bashing, I honestly do find that any philosophy based solely upon one's religious beliefs that prevents sound independent good science from being performed or practiced and questions its basic proven valid foundations with religious arguements is a dangerous concept within our current society.

It set us back on the path to the Dark Ages of the Middle Ages ..., and ignores all progress achieved with Leonardo DaVinci, Descartes, Newton, Einstein, Darwin and countless others ....

Other than that: I also find that the basic design plans put forward by Noahs Ark Farm for for example the elephants-the rhinos IMO fail to meet the standards required for sound zoo animal design, housing and management.

We can discuss and argue on the latter, not the first.


POST SCRIPTUM: my forebearers did not flee France in the 17th Century for no reason at all. If you would consider the history of Holland in the 16th Century you would know and accept what persecution for one's beliefs really means (we defeated the Spanish Roman Catholic inspired occupation after almost a century and put in place a more congenial acceptant society and did not burn people for their beliefs at the stake or else ...).

 

[bazzoobuilder]

Kifaur.... You have just mentioned our current society in a post that for the most part I must confess I didn’t understand.
How I see our “current society” is as one struggling to become tolerant and integrated as cultures and religions from around the world are brought together. Why do you think is wrong for anybody who does not agree with you to have their beliefs? That’s the main mistake nearly all religions make isn’t it?

 

[Pertinax]

Please could you avoid taking this thread too far of course. Thanks.

 

[torie]

all colections with elephants have at one point been brand new to the idea of keeping elephants. NAFZ is by no means the first collection to move into keeping elephants and no one has yet been able to come up with evidence that they have not contacted other establishments about eles and done the ground work that comes with exhibiting a brand new species to a collection. you all also seem so sure that their staff have no elephant experience and unless you have followed the careers of every single member of staff there im not sure how any one can confidently make this claim.

 

[bazzoobuilder]

Thank for getting back on subject. I thought I was about to be “moderated” for asking some of the sites users to be tolerant and truthful. For those of you that are interested on what is actually going on at present, I can tell you that we expecting the house and outside areas to be around the biggest in the country well over 7,000 cubic metres inside and 12 archers out with a pond big enough for several elephants to fully submerge at any one time. For the benefit of Mr Fency guy the boundary fencing is being designed by piling companies to withstand 32 ton and fully electrified. We intend to use several thousand tons of sand as a 2 meter deep floor, similar to that in Dublin zoo (A place I was very impressed with and could only hope to stand somewhere close in there shadow). Members of our staff have visited every zoo in this country that keeps elephants and have been doing so since 2006 when we first started contemplating this project, so we do know what everybody else is doing and what we would like to do. Who may or may not work for us as keepers is there business and with the amount of stick we get (Mostly unjustified and from minority extremists) who would blame them.

 

[johnstoni]

all colections with elephants have at one point been brand new to the idea of keeping elephants. NAFZ is by no means the first collection to move into keeping elephants and no one has yet been able to come up with evidence that they have not contacted other establishments about eles and done the ground work that comes with exhibiting a brand new species to a collection. you all also seem so sure that their staff have no elephant experience and unless you have followed the careers of every single member of staff there im not sure how any one can confidently make this claim.

its not that simple. It is very rare to find a collection with elephants today that did not keep them back in the day when they were easy to import, and easy to replace when they died. Almost all zoos still with elephants have them as a result of maintaining either ageing animals from the 1950's/60's/70s imports, or from attempting to establish a breeding group and recieving other animals from zoos no longer wishing to keep them.

A decision to keep elephants in 2010 having never kept them previously is a big, big deal, and should rightfully come under public scrutiny. However everything I have heard about this project is promising.

 

[bazzoobuilder]

The project is on hold for the forseeable future due to lack of funding.

? NO.
Expecting everything to continue as per the original plan..... 2006 to 2009 research and feasibility..... 2010 obtain planning.... 2011 services, fine tuning and funding..... 2012 start build in spring.
No problems with that so far but if anybody would like to offer any help advice or finance feel free.

 

[Paradoxurus]

As I've commented before, I will defend many of NAZFs policies for which they have been criticized on this forum and elsewhere. Tigers in the freezer? Doesn't every zoo? Dealing with a circus? NAZF is not the only one. etc. I even defend NAZFs right to preach creationism.

However there is still a long way to go before the NAZF management's notions are brought into line with current animal husbandry concepts. On the subject of the problem of surplus bull elephant calves at a relatively recent BIAZA meeting the senior member of NAZF staff was heard to respond, and I paraphrase, "I don't know what all the fuss is about. Why don't we just euthanase them all?". This remark was clear evidence of his extreme naivety on modern zoo ethics and public relations. His stance is dangerous to the hard-earned popular image of the wider zoo comunity. Whilst this attitude is rightly acceptable in the farming industry, it is now world's appart from what is acceptable in in the zoo world. Can someone with such a point of view really be considered a responsible elephant custodian?

 

[bazzoobuilder]

As I've commented before, I will defend many of NAZFs policies for which they have been criticized on this forum and elsewhere. Tigers in the freezer? Doesn't every zoo? Dealing with a circus? NAZF is not the only one. etc. I even defend NAZFs right to preach creationism.

However there is still a long way to go before the NAZF management's notions are brought into line with current animal husbandry concepts. On the subject of the problem of surplus bull elephant calves at a relatively recent BIAZA meeting the senior member of NAZF staff was heard to respond, and I paraphrase, "I don't know what all the fuss is about. Why don't we just euthanase them all?". This remark was clear evidence of his extreme naivety on modern zoo ethics and public relations. His stance is dangerous to the hard-earned popular image of the wider zoo comunity. Whilst this attitude is rightly acceptable in the farming industry, it is now world's appart from what is acceptable in in the zoo world. Can someone with such a point of view really be considered a responsible elephant custodian?

First I would like to say that I consider your comments to more often than not to be balanced and insightful and I am not about to disagree with this one as I know nothing about it.
I would however like to point out that an individual’s comments out of context can give the wrong impression particularly if paraphrased.
For instance I can be quoted as saying I agree with euthanasia. Look what you can do with that one!
(And somebody probity will)
Anyway keep it up you are an asset to this site.

 

[CindelP]

As I've commented before, I will defend many of NAZFs policies for which they have been criticized on this forum and elsewhere. Tigers in the freezer? Doesn't every zoo? Dealing with a circus? NAZF is not the only one. etc. I even defend NAZFs right to preach creationism.

However there is still a long way to go before the NAZF management's notions are brought into line with current animal husbandry concepts. On the subject of the problem of surplus bull elephant calves at a relatively recent BIAZA meeting the senior member of NAZF staff was heard to respond, and I paraphrase, "I don't know what all the fuss is about. Why don't we just euthanase them all?". This remark was clear evidence of his extreme naivety on modern zoo ethics and public relations. His stance is dangerous to the hard-earned popular image of the wider zoo comunity. Whilst this attitude is rightly acceptable in the farming industry, it is now world's appart from what is acceptable in in the zoo world. Can someone with such a point of view really be considered a responsible elephant custodian?

But, it is such idea, a bad or stupid one?

Culling should be (and is) one of the most effective tolls of animals colection management.