Noah's Ark Zoo Farm Elephants

Lots of ideas for the smaller enrichment items, still working on them.
The metre deep sand floor will offer a lot of potential for burying food. Areal walkways and winches will make overhead feeding easy. I would personally like to do something interesting with water but haven’t got that far yet.
 
Keepers have recently been over to Hamburg for Elephant training. Work is expected to begin on the exhibit later in 2012. I would still be very suprised though if they didn't have issues with sourcing Elephants now they haven't got BIAZA approval :/

Now that Longleat is also constructing a similar project is there really a need for TWO elephant sanctuary's that are so close in distance?? :confused:

Where are they both planning to rescue these elephants from now the all the Circus elephants in this country have already been retired to pastures new?

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Noah...ady-Elephant/story-15077066-detail/story.html
 
I've never been to Noah's Ark; the underlying philosophy makes me feel uneasy..:confused:

What impact, if any, do other posters think that it will have on the plans Bristol have for Hollywood Towers?
 
There are plenty of needy circus elephants in Europe. But Noah`s Ark are planning for a breeding herd - a few related females and a bull. If that comes true (which I doubt very much), they won`t have space for circus eles. It`s more realistic that they will take 2-3 older females with social problems that don`t fit into breeding groups, and maybe in addition a circus ele or two if some become availible.
 
IanRRobinson said:
What impact, if any, do other posters think that it will have on the plans Bristol have for Hollywood Towers?
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I've aired my thoughts on that somewhere- I think they are fast filling the 'niche' that the Hollywood developent would have done, with the 'big' species which Bristol Zoo no longer has. If the conservation park ever happens it would no doubt be a superior development, but its not there, and Noah's Ark is. I don't know if NA's existence and growth will have any direct effect on Bristol's plans- only they know that.;)
 
OK... I´ve just finished to read the whole thread, hoping that will help to understand... but it didn´t.

At first, it seemed that it´s gonna be build for rescued circus elephants, then somebody mentioned that they are planning to have breeding herd.. Anybody knows, where the elephants gonna come from? Or is it still a mystery?

My main question is - how did they manage to get a government grant??
I´m asking because as far as I know, Creation Museums and Zoo in US are privately funded, by people who also believe in creation. We may not agree with what they´re doing, but at least they´re not funded by tax-payer´s money. I´m not an UK tax-payer, but if I were, I would be outraged. Putting the elephants aside, reading "Earth History" on their website is enough for me not to agree with any government funding whatsoever. They claim to do EDUCATIONAL programs for schools!



The Darwinian view offers a different framework. It seeks to persuade people, on the basis of authority rather than evidence, that the complexity accumulated gradually and accidentally, with each step representing a miraculous combination of mutations along a path extending all the way from bacteria to human beings. Bacteria 'somehow' became eukaryotes. Fish 'somehow' acquired legs and lungs and left the water, and so on. Paradoxically, this atheistic view requires more faith, more willingness to believe, than the biblical view.
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How can you use tax-payer´s money for such "education"?
 
Stefka said:
How can you use tax-payer´s money for such "education"?
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Reality flash, governments fund lots of things you might disagree with from opera to wars to schools encouraging pupils to chant the Lord's Prayer on a daily basis. You shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Creationists are tax payers too and some of the things you think are a good use of tax-payers money other would think were a waste. That's (our form of) democracy and short of revolution (which wouldn't work) I'm not sure there's an easy solution -you can only really hope the amounts "wasted" are minimised and spread the word when you think they're not.

Personally I think if they use it to build a decent Elephant enclosure, which I'm extremely sceptical of, at least it's gone to good use and would create an exhibit people could see (except on Sundays:D) unlike the massive New England Aviary at Twycross also part funded by tax-payers money and viewable by hardly anyone.
 
I'm most definitely not a defender of Noah's Arc, as I don't agree with their creationist stand point. And won't visit them for that reason.

However, this article is incredibly biased and one-sided. As Shorts has said these kind of grants are pretty common place. This article just seems to be a big anti-zoo tirade, not a valid argument as to why Noah's Arc shouldn't get a grant. It really wouldn't matter to them who had got the grant, it's more about trying to say elephants shouldn't be captive, which I personally think if they are in a good facility is nonsense!

I can't argue whether noah's arc would provide a good facility or not, as I simPly don't know, but I do know other places that do.
 
Shorts said:
Reality flash, governments fund lots of things you might disagree with from opera to wars to schools encouraging pupils to chant the Lord's Prayer on a daily basis. You shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Creationists are tax payers too and some of the things you think are a good use of tax-payers money other would think were a waste. That's (our form of) democracy and short of revolution (which wouldn't work) I'm not sure there's an easy solution -you can only really hope the amounts "wasted" are minimised and spread the word when you think they're not.
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I admit, I was kinda hot-headed when replying to this post. And I totally agree that there are lots of things the governments is funding that I don´t agree with.

However, that wasn´t really what I was trying to say. I was thinking only about funding for animal and wildlife related organizations and projects. There is a lot of CREDIBLE zoos and sanctuaries in UK, places with REAL educational program, high animal care standards and strong conservation message. And I´m sure they could use this amount of money in much better way, especially in this economic climate. (And again, I´m not from UK, so I´m not gonna give you examples, members from UK can fill in the blanks.)

And I think I kind of perceived creationism as an "American thing" and was really surprised by the fact there there is a place like this in UK and that it is getting money from the government.

What scares me the most is the education. I know that the money will fund building of a new enclosure, not the educational projects, BUT I believe that when you receive money from the government, it gives some kind of "credibility" in the eyes of general public. And that something this place doesn´t deserve.

Hope it makes sense..;)
 
C A P S can at times tell lies you know!

Just a couple of points I would like to make clear.

1/ Noah’s Ark’s educational program is national curriculum based.

2/ Any government grants would only be forthcoming if and when the project goes ahead. (Nothing scammed as yet)

3/ Many accusations put forward by people opposed to Noah’s Ark are outright lies.

4/ Many of the members of CAPS are opposed to ALL animals being kept in captivity in any way for food, sport, conservation, education, or pets. As well as against the killing of animals in any way again for food, as pest control, or animal management.:confused:

I would like to sagest that although animal rites campaigners have been and are still in many cases very good news for animals, anybody supporting them does so with point 4/ in mind.

I would also like to sagest that visiting somewhere is probably necessary before you can say what it’s like. (there are a number of site members who have and do visit from time to time, who are still very critical about Noah’s Ark, but I can assure you all they are the only ones who’s criticisms I and other members of staff at Noah’s Ark take seriously.)
:o
 
bazzoobuilder said:
Just a couple of points I would like to make clear.

1/ Noah’s Ark’s educational program is national curriculum based.

2/ Any government grants would only be forthcoming if and when the project goes ahead. (Nothing scammed as yet)

3/ Many accusations put forward by people opposed to Noah’s Ark are outright lies.

4/ Many of the members of CAPS are opposed to ALL animals being kept in captivity in any way for food, sport, conservation, education, or pets. As well as against the killing of animals in any way again for food, as pest control, or animal management.:confused:

I would like to sagest that although animal rites campaigners have been and are still in many cases very good news for animals, anybody supporting them does so with point 4/ in mind.

I would also like to sagest that visiting somewhere is probably necessary before you can say what it’s like. (there are a number of site members who have and do visit from time to time, who are still very critical about Noah’s Ark, but I can assure you all they are the only ones who’s criticisms I and other members of staff at Noah’s Ark take seriously.)
:o
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As far as I am aware, The British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquaria are not against keeping animals in captivity, why then did they decide to kick Noah's Arc out of this organisation as they were deemed not to be fit and proper to continue being a member?
 
bazzoobuilder said:
Just a couple of points I would like to make clear.

1/ Noah’s Ark’s educational program is national curriculum based.

2/ Any government grants would only be forthcoming if and when the project goes ahead. (Nothing scammed as yet)

3/ Many accusations put forward by people opposed to Noah’s Ark are outright lies.

4/ Many of the members of CAPS are opposed to ALL animals being kept in captivity in any way for food, sport, conservation, education, or pets. As well as against the killing of animals in any way again for food, as pest control, or animal management.:confused:

I would like to sagest that although animal rites campaigners have been and are still in many cases very good news for animals, anybody supporting them does so with point 4/ in mind.

I would also like to sagest that visiting somewhere is probably necessary before you can say what it’s like. (there are a number of site members who have and do visit from time to time, who are still very critical about Noah’s Ark, but I can assure you all they are the only ones who’s criticisms I and other members of staff at Noah’s Ark take seriously.)
:o
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Thanks for replying baz. You are one of the few zoo owners who will reply directly.

In general I agree with your post, the CAPS site is very very anti-zoo and anti any kind of captivity. I find their biased reporting of your grant puts me off listening to any other points of view they put forward.*

As I said in my previous post I'm not an advocate of your perceived creationist stand point, but that has no bearing on the care you give your animals. And if the grants commission have approved your grant, then they have done so after researching how the money will be put to use. Twycross is my local zoo and I love the new entrance and snow leopard enclosure (though the aviary is sadly poorly stocked) despite criticism levelled at it, so I know that you'd never *be able to spend the money in a way everyone would approve of.*

I'm not anti zoo or anti captivity if conditions are right, and CAPS arguments make no sense, they start off arguing one thing, then support it with 'evidence' (uncited) from a totally different angle.*

I guess what I'm saying in conclusion is even though I don't support your philosophy I support your right to apply for funding and spend it in the commission approved way.*

EDIT: re tarzan's post. I didnt realise you were no longer a member of biaza. As I don't know why I can't comment on this, though I'd be interested to hear your point of view.
 
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bazzoobuilder said:
4/ Many of the members of CAPS are opposed to ALL animals being kept in captivity in any way for food, sport, conservation, education, or pets. As well as against the killing of animals in any way again for food, as pest control, or animal management.:confused:
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That´s the only point I can agree on.

I´m not gonna go into further arguments, I´m obviously not open-minded enough to discuss this issue and it would just become one of those never-ending threads leading nowhere.

But since you´re here, could you shed a light on the misleading info about elephants? Where will they come from?

Thank you and best of luck.
 
mazfc said:
Thanks for replying baz. You are one of the few zoo owners who will reply directly.

In general I agree with your post, the CAPS site is very very anti-zoo and anti any kind of captivity. I find their biased reporting of your grant puts me off listening to any other points of view they put forward.*

As I said in my previous post I'm not an advocate of your perceived creationist stand point, but that has no bearing on the care you give your animals. And if the grants commission have approved your grant, then they have done so after researching how the money will be put to use. Twycross is my local zoo and I love the new entrance and snow leopard enclosure (though the aviary is sadly poorly stocked) despite criticism levelled at it, so I know that you'd never *be able to spend the money in a way everyone would approve of.*

I'm not anti zoo or anti captivity if conditions are right, and CAPS arguments make no sense, they start off arguing one thing, then support it with 'evidence' (uncited) from a totally different angle.*

I guess what I'm saying in conclusion is even though I don't support your philosophy I support your right to apply for funding and spend it in the commission approved way.*

EDIT: re tarzan's post. I didnt realise you were no longer a member of biaza. As I don't know why I can't comment on this, though I'd be interested to hear your point of view.
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Hi mazfc
I will just reply to you in the expectation that this post will also answer other questions, so far as I am able.
The main point of my reply is to clarify your misunderstanding about my position. I am not the owner of Noah’s ark. As it is common knowledge, I don’t think that Mr Bush would mind me telling you that he and his wife are joint owners of the 300 acre zoo and working arable farm.
Although I am not lucky enough to be the owner of Noah’s ark, I do find it a pleasure working there as the buildings manager. Working as I do within the building department I don’t have a great deal of involvement with a lot of animal matters.
With regard to the CAPS allegations of animal cruelty all were investigated and proved to be false. I know this as a documented fact.
So far as I know disagreements over the Animal transaction policy resulted in conflict and loss of BIAZA membership, but as I was not party to any correspondence on that issue I do not know exactly what was said.
I have had a love of animals all my life and have strong views on animal welfare.
I have always had pets and am interested in all zoos.
Unlike most of the animal rites people I have spoken to I believe that my close proximity to animals from an early age was a good thing and something I want to keep for my children and grandchildren.
 
Nisha said:
Work gets underway on the now 20 Acre exhibit with an opening planned for Summer 2013

Still being suspiciously quiet though on where the Elephants will be sourced from ;)
Work begins on elephant sanctuary at Noah's Ark Zoo Farm | This is Somerset
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The site could become home to elephants with behavioural issues which are causing them difficulties in their current homes, rescue animals, or elephants from collections with a lack of space.

Visiting @ Noah's Ark Zoo Farm
 
Clouded Leopard said:
The site could become home to elephants with behavioural issues which are causing them difficulties in their current homes, rescue animals, or elephants from collections with a lack of space.
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Note the word 'could'. It sounds fine in theory but such Elephants, if there are any such actually made available to them, are likely to be even more difficult/dangerous to handle than usual. They would need to hire some very experienced Elephant keepers.
 
Maybe the family-unit from Emmen Zoo is moving towards Noah's Ark Zoo. Emmen Zoo is in the need for a new housing.


Who knows.
 
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