Euthanasia of healthy animals in zoos, and "Breed to Cull"

[tigris115]

When my teacher from the Bronx Zoo (great guy) said that Copenhagen puts down animals all the time and I think your supposed to burn or bury the remains of animals instead of feeding them to the carnivores to prevent disease. And then my horse teacher said this morning, "why not just castrate him?"

 

[Monty]

Key words here are "no alternative". Copenhagen zoo did not consider separating sexes, contraceptive nor vasectomy. Other zoos use these tools routinely.

I believe they have talked about contraception and castration in several articles. Castration changes natural behavior and what is the point of spending money keeping a castrated male while paying money buying food for carnivores. Personally I think having a young breeding population is good for the population and the only way to do this is mimic nature and keep removing older animals and excess males. They have done this in the most efficient way.

I can only assume that you have seen a bolt gun used badly, as any tool can be, but in the hands of an experienced person, it is as effective and immediate as a well aimed shot from a rifle. It is also fair to say that if the animal had been darted to be brought down and then euthanized, this would have been a significantly more stressful event for the giraffe and the possibilities of injury prior to death through a bad fall would of course have been higher; and no wild meat for the carnivores. The use of a firearm is definitely less stressful and quicker, when done correctly, than the use of any drug. From my readings of recent capital punishment events in the USA, if I were in such a situation and given a choice, I would take a bullet to the head over a dodgy drug cocktail, that does not act immediately, every time.

Good factual comments.

Years ago I went out with a vet who would refuse to give lethal injections to horses and other large animals, for safety and humane animal management reasons. She always said a rifle was much more humane. As the drugs take effect large animals try and retain their balance and get very agitated before toppling sideways with their legs strait.

 

[Batto]

@Zooplantman: you're misinterpreting me; I'm not interested in playing any "games". Why should I? If I could predict the future, I would have warned Bengt Holst...The radical part oft the anti-zoo-lobby will always be opposed to zoos and looking for ammunition for their agenda, no matter what a zoo does or doesn't. And their memory is usually very selective. They might bring up the issue again and again, but over time, its emotional impact on the public will decrease, as another, novel event will capture their attention. Nihil aeternum est.

 

[Batto]

If the giraffe calf born at Copenhagen had been female instead of male , I doubt there would have been any problem finding a collection to take it . This would also apply to elephants , gorillas and many other species .

Well, did you think modern gender double standards would stop at zoo animals? I wonder when the first radical feminists will scold zoos for not reeducating their chimpanzee or lion alpha males, while some MRAs will protest against the neutering of surplus males...

 

[Taisha]

There has been much said about letting children see the post mortem, but from the pictures I have seen in the media, it looked like an interested group of people, including families, that were watching, and I would be wildly surprised if there was not some sort of announcement just prior to what they were about to do giving people the chance to stay and watch or leave. This whole child trauma issue, although not laboured by yourself, is one that I find horribly hypocritical.

Do you have the professional background to assess the damage that might be done to children?
And certainly nowhere has been said, it would be inflicted on each child watching.
In the newspaper one comment on Marius was from a psychiatrist who treats children with disorders by similiar traumatizing events during their farm childhood.

 

[Taisha]

For information:
The press officer of the danish zoo: we didn't expect this uproar, as we do it 20-30 times a year, with antelopes, hippos, leopards, bears, for the same reasons as with the giraffe. It is standard in many European zoos.

A German animal dealer Harald Brinkop: "Of course you could call a zoo a modern slaughter house."

 

[SabineB]

The South Lakes Wild Animal Park has issued a very interesting Statement. I find the part dealing with their surplus males specifically telling.

https://www.facebook.com/SouthLakesWildAnimalPark/posts/687299177981941

 

[Batto]

In the newspaper one comment on Marius was from a psychiatrist who treats children with disorders by similiar traumatizing events during their farm childhood.

I think I read that bit in a German tabloid; never heard of that fellow before.
Funny that there's always a psychiatrist ready to varify even the most asinine assumptions:

"Videogames turn all children into killing machines!"-"Yes, I had tons of cases due to that!"

"Playing contact sports will turn your child into a violent thug!"-"Main topic at the national psychology meeting this year!"

"Being relaxed about human nudity will turn your child into a pervert!"-"My practice is full of them!"

and so on and on. Professional tunnel vision, my guess.

I don't want to deny that people might react differently to animal slaughter and that some individuals are more sensitive than others (I've had my share of adults fainting after seeing only a droplet of blood), but come on: how many children growing up on the countryside, joining their parents fishing and hunting or having pets like snakes or spiders that can't be fed canned food or pellets would consequently have to end up in therapy? I guess that only a minuscule fraction of these kids might not be able to deal with it, maybe also due to other traumatic circumstances. If that German psychiatrist can help them, even better. But bringing up children as a thought-terminating cliché is a cheap trick.

 

[Nanook]

If the giraffe calf born at Copenhagen had been female instead of male , I doubt there would have been any problem finding a collection to take it . This would also apply to elephants , gorillas and many other species .

Spot on Bele, males are the ones most usually euthanased.

As an example I wonder how long it will be until surplus male Okapis are euthanased for instance ?? Would it happen one day ? (Perhaps in Copenhagen it might!!)

At the end of the day it is down to the director of Copenhagen Zoo, not necessarily EAZA, as the zoo claimed. EAZA do have guidelines obviously and yes they do expect their member collections to adhere to those guidelines, BUT they are GUIDELINES ONLY they are NOT LAW. EAZA do not force member zoos to comply with those guidelines to the letter, each member zoo can decide for themselves what they do within reason. I know, for example, of several instances where a high profile animal has been born and EAZA recommended euthanasia BUT the zoos concerned refused to comply with that, and with the reasons given accepted by EAZA. So Copenhagen`s claim about EAZA is not completely correct, the zoo had to make their own decision and in this case I believe they made the WRONG decision.

 

[Pleistohorse]

Not entirely relevant to the general discussion here, but the Alaska Zoo once had on exhibit a few breeding Partridges in an education display explaining that the birds were destined to be fed to the foxes, coyotes, and lynx. I am sure the practice continues, but the birds are no longer on display. In a way I feel that is unfortunate, though I can't be sure it was the result of public pressure that the birds are no longer displayed.

 

[Nanook]

I think Copenhagen Zoo, and perhaps some others, need to take a serious look at their own policy of having "no methods of birth control" in place.
That is actually the true root of this problem.
To be recklessly breeding animals and then simply culling the surplus animals ie; "breed to cull" is not proper animal management at all. It is very bad animal management, and that is coming from a top international zoo, that should, in theory, know what its doing.
Surely the art of correct animal management is not getting to that stage in the first place!!
Also why on earth let a young male giraffe attain such an age if it is known that it is unwanted, it is far easier and kinder to euthanase at an early age, if required. There is a great deal about this giraffe situation that is simply not right.

 

[Spixii]

I recognize the points established by Copenhagen, but I simply do not understand why the offer by YWP wasn't considered. Non-breeding groups serve the purpose of educating the public, and freeing spaces for institutions that are actively breeding... which was the ethical course of action in this scenario.

 

[Noris Cole]

I think Copenhagen Zoo, and perhaps some others, need to take a serious look at their own policy of having "no methods of birth control" in place.
That is actually the true root of this problem.
To be recklessly breeding animals and then simply culling the surplus animals ie; "breed to cull" is not proper animal management at all. It is very bad animal management, and that is coming from a top international zoo, that should, in theory, know what its doing.
Surely the art of correct animal management is not getting to that stage in the first place!!
Also why on earth let a young male giraffe attain such an age if it is known that it is unwanted, it is far easier and kinder to euthanase at an early age, if required. There is a great deal about this giraffe situation that is simply not right.

Perhaps when he was a baby he would have been a good "box office draw" and give a good signal to the world at what a marvellous job this zoo is doing breeding animals that are very vulnerable in the wild, but when he grows up and starts to feel the weight of himself, that's a different matter, off you go boy.

 

[Noris Cole]

I recognize the points established by Copenhagen, but I simply do not understand why the offer by YWP wasn't considered. Non-breeding groups serve the purpose of educating the public, and freeing spaces for institutions that are actively breeding... which was the ethical course of action in this scenario.

From what I understand Copenhagen did not get back to YWP when they offered him a home, Copenhagen said they would not want in breeding Iunderstand that, but how can you get in breeding in a bachelor group?, also they state that it would have been a waste of space, what a dreadful expression to describe a majestic sentient being, as Marius's genes are already represented in his relation that currently resides at YWP,

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I recognize the points established by Copenhagen, but I simply do not understand why the offer by YWP wasn't considered.

From what I understand Copenhagen did not get back to YWP when they offered him a home,

The probable reason was already mentioned in the predecessor to this thread....

Is it not also the case - I heard this from a Danish media source and I think it was mentioned earlier here too - that they sent out a request some time ago for EAZA institutions to accept the giraffe and got no response?

If this is the case it seems to me that YWP just decided to do their 'heroic duty' as soon as it got into the media.

If nowhere was prepared to take him previously via the normal channels i.e. through EAZA approved surplus listings, they weren't going to be forced into a last moment 'rescue' situation.

 

[Noris Cole]

The probable reason was already mentioned in the predecessor to this thread....

As you have already stated your ignorance in what the Yorkshire Wildlife Park currently holds in its collection and indeed how well the animals concerned living there are housed, I suggest you are not in a position to comment on this place in any way. {deleted}

 

[ThylacineAlive]

@Noris Cole, if my eyes aren't tricking me, it seems TLD has only quoted what other members have said. And what they say is probably true. I mean, how come YWP didn't respond to the call for a home until literally right before Marius was put down and not when the EAZA put out the call? {deleted}

~Thylo

 

[TZFan]

I know this thread is more about the whole policy side of euthanasia but the Marius thread was closed so Im going to post an article I found here. If it would be better in another thread please feel free to move it to the right one.

A Canadian zoo tried to offer to take Marius when they found out what was about to happen. Parc Safari in Quebec had several people attempting to contact Copenhagen to let them know they would take him in. It doesnt say when they tried or exactly how often but I wonder if they had got through if things could have changed. If they could have reached them the argument for putting him down would have disappeared. Here in Canada he wouldnt have been at risk of inbreeding. Parc Safari is a member of the Canadian Aquarium and Zoo Association so its standards are on par seeing as other EAZA institutions send animals to Canada. Knowing what could happen to him the safari would have had absolutely no problem raising more than enough funds to transport him any way Copenhagen wanted and make any changes to the habitat they needed to. I cant say what would have happened if they had got through to someone maybe something could have changed. Perhaps Parc Safari should have called in the media when phone calls, emails and texts didnt get through. We all know how fast a story can blow up on the internet and reach those necessary.

I only thought I would post it because its the first time Ive heard a fully accredited zoo outside of Europe made any attempt to save Marius.

Marius The Giraffe Was Offered A Spot At Quebec Zoo

 

[Noris Cole]

@Noris Cole, if my eyes aren't tricking me, it seems TLD has only quoted what other members have said. And what they say is probably true. I mean, how come YWP didn't respond to the call for a home until literally right before Marius was put down and not when the EAZA put out the call?

~Thylo

And when did you last visit the Yorkshire Wildlife Park and appreciate the good work that has been] done there, and indeed continues to be done there

 

[ThylacineAlive]

And when did you last visit the Yorkshire Wildlife Park and appreciate the good work that has been] done there, and indeed continues to be done there

I've never visited, just like I never claimed they didn't do good work. I'm not too familiar with the collection and I'm sure they do fine work but, just like TLD, I was simply stating the obvious and previously mentioned.

You're welcome.

~Thylo