Euthanasia of healthy animals in zoos, and "Breed to Cull"

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Interesting - as a non-EAZA collection, the collection in Canada will not have had access to the surplus lists.

We may never know if Copenhagen did receive news that said collection had enquired about the giraffe, of course.

For the record, I intend to visit Yorkshire Wildlife Park soon as I have heard good things about it, but as I am reliant on public transport it takes rather more planning than it does for someone who can hop in the car and drive there! Lack of personal experience of a collection does *not* mean an individual is disputing "the good work that has been] done there, and indeed continues to be done there" as you put it :)
 
Odds are Parc Safari wouldnt have found out about Marius until it erupted on the internet. Its a not one of Canada's big zoos so their calls might have just been ignored because no one knew them. If they had seen a call from Toronto, Calgary or Winnipeg they might have picked up the phone. I wasnt trying to imply they purposely ignored Parc Safari so they could kill Marius if it came across that way.

Does anyone know what species of giraffe he was?
 
Oh then he would have had lots of opportunities here in Canada. Toronto's mother daugher pair and Calgary's male are the only Masai's which explains why they didnt put calls in. But all other giraffes in Canada are Reticulated or reticulated hybreds. His genes would have been adored here as its difficult to transport hooved animals across the Canada US border.

Thanks for taking the time to tell me what kind he was.
 
TZFan said:
But all other giraffes in Canada are Reticulated or reticulated hybreds. His genes would have been adored here as its difficult to transport hooved animals across the Canada US border.
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In which case, it would be interesting to learn whether EAZA would be open to sharing information regarding future surplus giraffe with CAZA, assuming it was believed the interest in obtaining the individual in question was genuine. Part of the issue, of course, is whether exporting a large animal like a giraffe - an export which would need to occur by ship if I am not mistaken - would be deemed worth the cost.
 
For anyone who is on Linkedin, there is an interesting discussion on the topic in the Zoo Professionals Group
 
Given the outcry over his death I really dont think any institution would have a problem raising the funds for transport if they simply asked for donations to save him. Canadians are very giving. There was a massive swell of support and fund raising last summer when Calgary Zoo was flooded and forced to have the majority of the zoo closed for 6 months. Saving a healthy young giraffe from a death most Canadians have seen as horribly tragic and unnecessary would be a cause people would get behind. Wouldnt take long before they had more than enough to bring over Marius and renovate the exhibit (needed or not).

I cant say how far out the zoo knew this was a possiblity. All I know is there were no reports of the impending death until Saturday. Whether the AZA or CAZA were contacted in advance I dont know. Parc Safari is closed now for the winter so its not like they will get a boost in visitors because they tried to save Marius. They gain little if anything from coming forward. If it was spring or summer when they were open it might be more suspect.
 
Im not sure if there are any pure breds either. I know the AZA manages giraffes in two groups, Masai and Reticulated/Rothschild. If there are a few pure ones out there it likely wouldnt be long before they were hybreds. But even making Marius' offspring hybreds still has to be preferrable to death right?

I feel like I've dragged the discussion off track. Should I stop talking about this? Let me know.
 
But multiple AZA zoos, like Bronx, focus on the captive breeding of the Baringo Giraffe Giraffa rothschildi.

~Thylo:cool:
 
Batto said:
Now all the people and institutions that offered to take in a "Marius" giraffe will have a second chance to do so...
Denmark zoo considers putting down second giraffe called Marius | Nature | News | Daily Express
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Just sickening.

By the way, is the transport really that costly and difficult?
Two years ago Berlin Tierpark send a giraffe to an Indonesian safari parc, from there it was transfered to Surabaya Zoo. By comparison Marius has probably been on the lucky side.

In all these discussions I am surprised that nobody seems to be disturbed by the fact, that Copenhagen kills leopards, hippos, bears, zebras on a regular base.
 
'Kill one Giraffe so we can breed another one' seems to be the rationale here in this second possible case. All this fuss at two Danish zoos may cause Zoos/the EEP to step back and re-examine their policies and the organisation of managed breeding programmes.

What is the actual point of all this?- they will no doubt say 'to maintain healthily genetic and viable stocks of animals in our Zoos' but it seems to be at an increasingly high price if this sort of bad publicity surrounds it.

Their 'bread and butter'- the visiting public, need to be listened to more in these instances, perhaps. They are fighting them by ignoring public opinion insisting they are right in what they are doing. The Copenhagen zoo director actually seems to have a remarkably arrogant and challenging attitude in his stance about all this, not the best way to win over peoples' thinking.
 
Pertinax said:
Their 'bread and butter'- the visiting public, need to be listened to more in these instances, perhaps. They are fighting them by ignoring public opinion insisting they are right in what they are doing. The Copenhagen zoo director actually seems to have a remarkably arrogant and challenging attitude in his stance about all this, not the best way to win over peoples' thinking.
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The majority of the 'bread and butter' aka the paying visitors of the Danish zoos are Danish people, not people from abroad. And judging from the reactions of the local media there and of all my Danish friends and colleagues, they do not see what all the fuss is about. Funny enough, most of my Non-Danish social environment agrees with them.
As for insuating Dr. Bengt Holst of arrogance: in my opinion, he appeared to be calm and collected, despite rather aggressive and rude international interviewers. I wonder whether I could be like that when faced with such emotional rage.
 
Pertinax said:
'
they will no doubt say 'to maintain healthily genetic and viable stocks of animals in our Zoos'
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Some figures:

Only 8% of all zoos and animal parcs in Europe are EAZA members.
The breeding program of EAZA lists 825 giraffes, of which 138 are hybrids and 48 of unknown subspecies status.
Means, that almost a quarter doesn't qualify for genetic breeding.

In the last days quite a number of European zoo directors have critzised what has happened, how many of them may just be angry, that the spotlight has been turned on culling?
 
Batto said:
Now all the people and institutions that offered to take in a "Marius" giraffe will have a second chance to do so...
Denmark zoo considers putting down second giraffe called Marius | Nature | News | Daily Express
Click to expand...

And I won't be surprised when non of them do if it's really the same situation. Of course, some might just offered last minute to look like heroes again.

And I'm gonna be very upset if all the outrage over this whole mess leads to captive giraffe populations becoming inbreed and eventually useless and phased-out. I think the public needs to stop blowing this out of proportion. Should this have been done, maybe, maybe not, but no need to (and I'm not necessarily referring to those on this site) make death threats to the director and his family nor compare them to murderous entities and call out their mental health. They need to know the fact before opening their mouths. Marius was not put down in front of the public and definitely not in front of children and neither were forced to watch the autopsy, anyone who watched did so willingly as they were asked before going into the giraffe house and any children who were there were so because their parents felt it was an okay thing for them to see. And for those who say it isn't natural for the Lions to be fed a giraffe, it's natural for them to hunt one, I'd rethink that statement as would you really like for them to have just released him into the Lion enclosure and allow him to be hunted.

Aaaagggh! It's too early for me to be getting this riled up!

~Thylo:cool:
 
I agree with you @ThylacineAlive. And what also bothers me is that some people appear to see this whole thing as a great occasion to blast and insult the Danish people in general. I don't know where all that hate comes from (cultural differences, financial/social envy?), but it shows how petty nationalistic bias is still simmering among some folks.
 
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