Future of Zoos SA zoos (Speculation)

As far as im aware, Monato actually already have an elephant enclosure.... they built a large moated area for the last of Adelaide's elephants, but she didn't last long as she fall into the moat and died in the struggle to get her out (maybe one of the zoo historian's could confirm or add further details about this) i dont know what currently uses this area, but i don't believe they've "removed " it as such. I can imagine Perths 2 elephants moving here, as its the closest option for them by road, and they would be quite disruptive to any other zoos elephant herds
 
Astrobird said:
As far as im aware, Monato actually already have an elephant enclosure.... they built a large moated area for the last of Adelaide's elephants, but she didn't last long as she fall into the moat and died in the struggle to get her out (maybe one of the zoo historian's could confirm or add further details about this) i dont know what currently uses this area, but i don't believe they've "removed " it as such. I can imagine Perths 2 elephants moving here, as its the closest option for them by road, and they would be quite disruptive to any other zoos elephant herds
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Samorn died in 1994, so I assume this area has long since been repurposed for rhinoceros and depending on its location may be part of the facilities housing the incoming rhinos from the Australian Rhino Project.

That’s an interesting idea about them receiving Perth’s elephants. Although my preference would be for them to house bachelor bulls, they could potentially receive the 1.1 from Perth (and the female from Auckland Zoo) with the view of exchanging the bull with Werribee down the line.

A decade from now, Werribee would need an unrelated bull to breed with any daughters bred from Gung and Dokoon/Mali; and in turn be grateful of an opportunity to shift on any young bulls bred at their facility - as well as Luk Chai, who would have sired several calves by then,
 
Astrobird said:
As far as im aware, Monato actually already have an elephant enclosure.... they built a large moated area for the last of Adelaide's elephants, but she didn't last long as she fall into the moat and died in the struggle to get her out (maybe one of the zoo historian's could confirm or add further details about this) i dont know what currently uses this area, but i don't believe they've "removed " it as such. I can imagine Perths 2 elephants moving here, as its the closest option for them by road, and they would be quite disruptive to any other zoos elephant herds
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The enclosure was built to take elephants from Melbourne, Taronga and Adelaide as part of a plan to remove them from city zoos. Melbourne and Taronga had changes in Director and recanted on the deal, deciding to retain them and develop new exhibits, as we have seen.
 
MRJ said:
The enclosure was built to take elephants from Melbourne, Taronga and Adelaide as part of a plan to remove them from city zoos. Melbourne and Taronga had changes in Director and recanted on the deal, deciding to retain them and develop new exhibits, as we have seen.
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That’s interesting to know. In 1991 (the year Samorn was transferred from Adelaide to Monarto), the three zoos had the following:

Taronga:

1.0 Heman (1963-2006)
0.1 Burma (1959-2021)
0.1 Ranee (1962-1998)

Melbourne:

1.0 Bong Su (1974-2017)
0.1 Mek Kapah (1973)

Adelaide:

0.1 Samorn (1950-1994)

Whether social issues (especially from Burma) would have prevented a cohesive herd from being formed is hard to say; but there was the potential for a decent sized (for it’s time) herd to have been formed of four cows - one of which was under 24 years of age (and potentially could have bred with Heman).
 
Zorro said:
I believe the whole gorilla situation in the region appears to need a good look at we appear to be sliding backwards while numbers in Europe and the US are gaining
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We were once doing extremely well. With both Melbourne and Taronga breeding them successfully.

Melbourne has only breed a single gorilla in twenty two years, after breeding six successfully over a period of sixteen years. A sad decline, which can only be attributed to the change of silverbacks, and later, the fact that Melbourne has only ever had one breeding female.
 
Jambo said:
We were once doing extremely well. With both Melbourne and Taronga breeding them successfully.

Melbourne has only breed a single gorilla in twenty two years, after breeding six successfully over a period of sixteen years. A sad decline, which can only be attributed to the change of silverbacks, and later, the fact that Melbourne has only ever had one breeding female.
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Yes I thought the program was going places but obviously now going backwards
 
Jambo said:
We were once doing extremely well. With both Melbourne and Taronga breeding them successfully.

Melbourne has only breed a single gorilla in twenty two years, after breeding six successfully over a period of sixteen years. A sad decline, which can only be attributed to the change of silverbacks, and later, the fact that Melbourne has only ever had one breeding female.
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Zorro said:
Yes I thought the program was going places but obviously now going backwards
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Taronga’s import of the troop from Apenheul was game changing given the region suddenly had a troop of well socialised gorillas capable of raising their own offspring. The troop were so successful, the females were contracepted with artificial birth intervals.

Melbourne by comparison has faced a range of challenges with poorly socialised gorillas and a legacy of issues including Melbourne bred Johari, who is in turn poorly socialised and not fully integrated within her troop.
 
Zorro said:
Yes I thought the program was going places but obviously now going backwards
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Mainly due to the fact that Melbourne had a group of females who were very socially deprived. One believed she was a chimp, the other had one arm and often had disputes with the silverback, and the other had screaming fits, likened to the fact that she may have had a scarring childhood. All three females also didn't know how to successfully raise a baby gorilla which only furthered the problems. The offspring, as we've seen, have also struggled socially.

It's really a shame Melbourne never stayed with Motoba as their silverback. He was very tolerant of the girls, and could've easily gone on to sire more infants with Julia and G Anne.
 
Zoofan15 said:
That’s interesting to know. In 1991 (the year Samorn was transferred from Adelaide to Monarto), the three zoos had the following:

Taronga:

1.0 Heman (1963-2006)
0.1 Burma (1959-2021)
0.1 Ranee (1962-1998)

Melbourne:

1.0 Bong Su (1974-2017)
0.1 Mek Kapah (1973)

Adelaide:

0.1 Samorn (1950-1994)

Whether social issues (especially from Burma) would have prevented a cohesive herd from being formed is hard to say; but there was the potential for a decent sized (for it’s time) herd to have been formed of four cows - one of which was under 24 years of age (and potentially could have bred with Heman).
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I believe Burma was kept seperate from Ranee, so if they were sent to Monarto, she may have had to live seperate.

Still a herd of females, Samorn, Ranee and Mek Kapah could've easily succeeded well. Mek Kapah, as we've seen has shown to be quite a social cow, and at the time would've been of breeding age and could've possibly breed with Heman.

I can't say how different the regional population would be now if this had happened. Maybe the large scale import from Thailand would've never happened, but obviously, going into the future, Monarto would've needed some new imports once most of the individuals died in the 90's and 00's.
 
Jambo said:
It's really a shame Melbourne never stayed with Motoba as their silverback. He was very tolerant of the girls, and could've easily gone on to sire more infants with Julia and G Anne.
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Personally, I think they were right to cease breeding with Julia and G Ann given they rejected their offspring. It was fortunate some level of socialisation was achieved through a crèche scenario/peer raising; but the result is Johari, who lives on the fringes of Kibale’s troop and may well be injured or rejected by a less tolerant silverback.

Maintaining Motoba as a silverback with them as non breeding females is a good idea though. Motoba is well represented, so lessening his contributions is no bad thing and would ensure the females were safely housed in a cohesive troop. A breeding female could have still been added.
 
Yet
Zoofan15 said:
Taronga’s import of the troop from Apenheul was game changing given the region suddenly had a troop of well socialised gorillas capable of raising their own offspring. The troop were so successful, the females were contracepted with artificial birth intervals.

Melbourne by comparison has faced a range of challenges with poorly socialised gorillas and a legacy of issues including Melbourne bred Johari, who is in turn poorly socialised and not fully integrated within her troop.
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Taronga exported two young females to Europe when more females should have been kept in the country
 
Zorro said:
Yet

Taronga exported two young females to Europe when more females should have been kept in the country
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Four females actually! Shinda (1991) and Kijivu (1993) to Prague; Anguka (1994) to Lisbon; and Safiri (1996) to Duisburg.

Melbourne certainly could do with some of them now. Interestingly, they sent the next Taronga bred female (born 2003) to Melbourne a couple of years after Anguka and Safiri’s export.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Four females actually! Shinda (1991) and Kijivu (1993) to Prague; Anguka (1994) to Lisbon; and Safiri (1996) to Duisburg.

Melbourne certainly could do with some of them now. Interestingly, they sent the next Taronga bred female (born 2003) to Melbourne a couple of years after Anguka and Safiri’s export.
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No wonder they are slipping backwards who’s making these decisions?
 
Zoofan15 said:
Personally, I think they were right to cease breeding with Julia and G Ann given they rejected their offspring. It was fortunate some level of socialisation was achieved through a crèche scenario/peer raising; but the result is Johari, who lives on the fringes of Kibale’s troop and may well be injured or rejected by a less tolerant silverback.

Maintaining Motoba as a silverback with them as non breeding females is a good idea though. Motoba is well represented, so lessening his contributions is no bad thing and would ensure the females were safely housed in a cohesive troop. A breeding female could have still been added.
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That's very true. It's a shame they left breeding Betsy too late. She began to prove a decent mother, and almost fully mother raised her second offspring, Bambuti, who's doing incredibly well over in Jersey.

Buzandi has done well too, successfully heading up a troop in Germany. Yakini seems to be a decent silverback as part of the bachelor group at Werribee, although Ganyeka is a little anti social, and stays on the fringes of the group.

Importing two new females would've been a great choice to breed with Motaba. I doubt they'd add females though, especially as he was very well represented already, which was why he was placed into a bachelor group with his two sons.
 
Zorro said:
No wonder they are slipping backwards who’s making these decisions?
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I believe the gorillas are part of the European breeding programme which means most of our exchanges are with their zoos.

There’s been a run of male births in Australian zoos, which hasn’t helped - six of the ten infants born at Taronga have been male.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Four females actually! Shinda (1991) and Kijivu (1993) to Prague; Anguka (1994) to Lisbon; and Safiri (1996) to Duisburg.

Melbourne certainly could do with some of them now. Interestingly, they sent the next Taronga bred female (born 2003) to Melbourne a couple of years after Anguka and Safiri’s export.
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Melbourne could've definitely made use of them, but just never had the space. With four adult females, two silverbacks, two juveniles and three babies, Melbourne were full to the brink.

By the time Anguka and Safiri were sent from Taronga to Adelaide, Melbourne was now down to nine gorillas, but adding an additional two females would've still been too much. Mbeli was only initially imported on a companionship basis for Johari, who was the only juvenile of the group.
 
Zorro said:
If there are exchanges were are the numbers coming here to replace them
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Most of the exports occurred at a time when our population was relatively healthy. Taronga had three breeding females and Melbourne had five females. Since then, the females have all become reproductively unviable due to age, death and social issues and new females are needed.
 
Jambo said:
We've recieved mostly males over the last few decades (Kisane, Otana and Kibali). Females are what we need right now, so I think Melbourne may be high priority for females in the future. I wouldn't be suprised if a female does end up in Melbourne very soon.
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They’ve largely replicated the wild scenario of a new silverback taking over a troop, but females emigrate from their natal troop into new troops at adolescence, so some young females (especially at Melbourne wouldn’t go a miss).
 
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