General Circus Poll

Do you think it is alright to have animals in circuses?

  • Total voters
    158
Zambar

Zambar

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
This is a certainly a heated debate here, and given the members here are both animal and zoo lovers, there are very mixed opinions: Some see at as similar to a zoo and therefore fine for the animals, others as definite cruelty in the very different and perhaps stressful conditions.

What I want to achieve here, by posting it in the general forum, is a survey to gather opinions across the whole of the site in order to create a ZooChat average opinion on animals in circuses. While of course it is not essential to vote, it is very highly encouraged to gain this; just a click of the mouse won't waste time.

So, without a doubt, cast your votes. Written opinions and friendly debate welcome.
 
Great idea, although are you putting a voting poll in as I can't see it...
 
Ah now I can see it.
My view is that animals being kept in circuses varies very little to a zoo environment, and there's reports from DEFRA stating there's proof they suffer no more than zoo animals. I also believe they're often in a better mental state due to a change in environment giving them new sights and smells on a daily basis making them more alert, and they're often in better physical state due to more exercise (training and performance). They also get a different environment weekly, and one could argue the travelling stresses them but I don't believe it's any different to transporting race horses and that the animals would get used to it quickly. I guess you could also argue that it's disrespectful to the animals to have them performing, but personally I have more respect for a lion in a circus due to the mutual respect it has for it's trainer, as in it could tear him apart in a few seconds but doesn't.
That is all :)
 
ashley-h said:
My view is that animals being kept in circuses varies very little to a zoo environment, and there's reports from DEFRA stating there's proof they suffer no more than zoo animals.
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I don`t know which circusses you have seen, I have seen around a dozend incl. most mayor german circusses, and I have yet to see even one circus that provides its bears, elephants, monkeys, giraffe, hippo, rhino, zebras, lions or tigers with conditions that come even close to a good zoo. Most circus places have a concrete ground, so that the outdoor enclosures of the rhino, elephants, hippo, bears .. also have a concrete floor, which is terrible for many mammals and certainly for elephants, hippos, rhinos, bears and monkeys. I have yet to see one circus enclosure for these animals that come close to the size of a good zoo enclosure for the same species, and that is equipped with natural vegetation, bushes, trees, climing frames, rocks, a pool, a mud wallow, and sand bath. Usually circus enclosure regardless with animal is kept in have a simple fence, are small, concrete flooring (see above), and if the lions/tigers/bears have a climbing post and some browse for enrichment, they are already lucky. Nothing that comes anywhere close to a complex zoo habitat.

That the concrete pen changes every week is no plus, in my humble opinion.
 
I say no, although I am looking that how animal gain enrichment, it is terrible to see animals preform tricks for our amusement, sometimes with the enforcement of a whip! I do understand that some circuses are very kind towards thier animals and use the up most care, but in most cases I'm sorry, is it not wrong to think days in and out in cargo on a train sometimes in boiling and/or frezzing conditions!

Although death of animal handlers in circuses are tragic, they are understandable.
 
Don't you support the use of elephants in India for logging and religious ceremonies? Exactly the same thing ;)
 
I think circuses are putrid, disgusting places that should be shut down. The only god one is Cirque du Soule
 
ashley-h said:
Don't you support the use of elephants in India for logging and religious ceremonies? Exactly the same thing ;)
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ah yes, I guess I am somewhat hipocritical there, but I support it ( the processions/poorams not the logging) cause it is a way of life, part of the economy,ceremonies, part of religion.
The elephants are cared for very well ( although there are cases of cruel mahouts) and usually live up to 60-65 there. It is cruel in some ways but can you see where I'm coming from? :confused:
 
Well I can, and what I see is exactly the same as circus, one of the oldest elephants in the UK (I think she's 55) Is Ann in Bobby Roberts circus. They're probably trained in the same way and they probably do more work as I'm assuming they don't get the winter off like circus elephants do?
 
ashley-h said:
Well I can, and what I see is exactly the same as circus, one of the oldest elephants in the UK (I think she's 55) Is Ann in Bobby Roberts circus. They're probably trained in the same way and they probably do more work as I'm assuming they don't get the winter off like circus elephants do?[/QUOT

I'd have to say I agree with you, circuses vary enormously and just like zoos the bad ones should be replaced with better. some practises in zoos and circuses are cruel but these practises can be replaced and improved for the welfare of the animals.

But the goals of zoos remain questionable, they are not here to educate or for conservation but just for the pleasure of visitors. But this again could be the same for parrot shows in zoos.

So overall I cannot find an wlefare reason to dislike zoos but its the message and goals of zoos that puts me in doubt. thats why i'm voting not sure. :D
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Good to see some reasoning :) I just read the old thread, and it's all well and good to just let animals do their own thing all the time, but what if it comes to catching them for medical reasons? They'll get a lot more stressed than they would if they were trained.
 
depends how they are kept, i agree with what Ashley said.

There is a sie in the middle of my town, which if say the GB Circus came (a circus been recently, not sure which one though), it would have certenly have enough space for lion, tiger, elephant, horses and camel enclosures, voting not sure, as it depends o the training
 
I don't think you can change your vote.
 
I voted "NO". I have debated this issue before at ZooChat.

Just today I watched some horrible videos on YouTube showing animals at The Ringling Brothers... (or whatever it is called, the biggest circus in the world - you all know what I mean). Elephants severely beaten with bullhooks; a camel going absolutely crasy in a cage so small it could not turn around, same thing with a big horse and a small pony. There were numerous videos to watch from this particular circus, but I stopped after watching the ones I have mentioned. The videos each lasted for several minutes and what particularily struck me was the sight of dozens of circus employees casually strolling by the suffering animals without taking any notice whatsover of their obvious pain and the state of panic they were in.

Obviously just "business as usual"...
 
Have you heard members of PETA and the like have taken jobs at Ringlings, beaten animals, filmed it and passed it on to give the place a bad name? I'm just saying, don't tar with the same brush, although we all know what you are like about space for animals ;)
 
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, come on, ashely-h! I usually enjoy debating with you, but you cannot be serious now?

What kind of unreal conspiracy theory is that?!
 
Apparently it's a true one... Like anti fox hunters killing foxes and nailing them to fence posts. Are you surprised that they'd do that Dan?
 
Sorry, ashley-h, but I think you are being silly now. I will post a bunch of links about "Ringling-whatever" tomorrow, but right now I am simply to stunned by what you write...

I hope that you are joking, though I honestly do not appreciate the joke.

(I cannot comment on the fox hunt debate in Britain as I know to little about it. It is also irrelevant to the subject of this thread.).

:eek::eek::eek:
 
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