Giant Panda Future in America

In an interesting twist it seems that San Francisco Zoo is making a real push to house pandas, at least on a temporary basis.
‘Giant' disappointment: Could San Diego bear it if pandas sent to San Francisco?

Mayor London Breed wrote a letter to China's leaders asking them to consider the San Francisco Zoo as a temporary home for the popular animals. Breed first made the suggestion to China President Xi Jinping during the APEC Summit in San Francisco in November after hearing him talk about restarting so-called Panda diplomacy.
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"To grow our friendship, to greatly benefit our youth, and to continue our joint efforts on panda conservation, I propose, as I did on the runway when bidding you farewell, that we establish a partnership in which our San Francisco Zoo will host your cherished diplomats — giant pandas," the letter read. "San Francisco does not simply stand ready; we stand with both confidence and excitement that we can be great partners in panda conservation and, more importantly, in the effort to continue improving and enhancing relations between the Chinese and American people."
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"We had some high level experts visit San Francisco at the end of last year to look over the zoo and to determine location and whether or not San Francisco could potentially host it and it's clear we can," Breed told NBC Bay Area.
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I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of the pandas spending a temporary time in San Francisco and then ending up in San Diego long term, which would probably cause enough fuss to provide SF with some much-needed funding for other projects in the long term, but I don't think they should be at SF long-term. San Diego is still one of the best facilities in the country, has breeding experience and has an exhibit ready-to-go.
 
JVM said:
I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of the pandas spending a temporary time in San Francisco and then ending up in San Diego long term, which would probably cause enough fuss to provide SF with some much-needed funding for other projects in the long term, but I don't think they should be at SF long-term. San Diego is still one of the best facilities in the country, has breeding experience and has an exhibit ready-to-go.
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Does San Francisco have an exhibit that could readily accommodate pandas, though, because if they had to build a whole new exhibit for something short-term then I'm not sure if it'd actually be the money-maker that pandas could possibly be. I've stated my opposition to any giant pandas in US zoos before (and that argument doesn't need to be re-hashed), but the idea of something short-term doesn't seem likely to have the same benefits to the institution that something more long-term would.
 
Neil chace said:
Does San Francisco have an exhibit that could readily accommodate pandas, though, because if they had to build a whole new exhibit for something short-term then I'm not sure if it'd actually be the money-maker that pandas could possibly be.
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I don't think they have one that could meet the requirements without at least a decent amount of renovation/additions. The idea of SF building a panda-suitable complex on short-term is laughable, frankly. They'd be far better off throwing panda money at finishing the projects they already have going and on updating and refreshing some of their old infrastructure.
 
Neil chace said:
Does San Francisco have an exhibit that could readily accommodate pandas, though, because if they had to build a whole new exhibit for something short-term then I'm not sure if it'd actually be the money-maker that pandas could possibly be. I've stated my opposition to any giant pandas in US zoos before (and that argument doesn't need to be re-hashed), but the idea of something short-term doesn't seem likely to have the same benefits to the institution that something more long-term would.
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I have no idea how functionally possible it is. I know pandas traveled for a while in the eighties or nineties at many facilities and I don't know how those exhibits were set up or ended. I would love to know more about this. I'm no expert on the facility and it's very likely they don't have the space at all.for such a thing, and I do not expect them to actually end up with the animals.

My line of thinking was it's possible a zoo could use a temporary panda exhibition as a framework to fund a large habitat that, with foresight, could be converted for use by a different species afterward with minimal additional cost (similar to how Asian elephant and Polar bear exhibits are often built today so they could be easily fitted for rhinoceros and brown bear) which I thought would function as a better use of money than building a hyper-specialized panda habitat - using the pandas to pay for whatever replaced them essentially, rather than having to maintain the animals long-term.

I was a bit too carried away in what would be the smartest way to handle the prospect instead of the reality of the specific institution that has struggled with basic concepts.
 
I will believe this when I see it but if it's true thank god they won't end up in San Francisco.
 
Joseph G said:
Giant pandas will return to San Diego Zoo possibly as soon as the end of the summer:

SAN DIEGO (AP) — China plans to send a new pair of giant pandas to the San Diego Zoo, renewing its longstanding gesture of friendship toward the United States after nearly all the iconic bears on loan to U.S. zoos were returned as relations began to sour between the two nations.
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It’s a bit puzzling to me why the ledes to all the stories about this are saying there were almost no pandas left in the U.S. amid a “deteriorating” relationship with China and the U.S., as if China just decided to pull the plug and abruptly take them all back.

Sure, if you want to make the argument that contracts weren’t renewed or offered to new places because of tensions, there could be an argument there. But all these pandas returned because their contract was expired, not because China demanded them back out of spite. Oh, media.
 
Mary said:
It’s a bit puzzling to me why the ledes to all the stories about this are saying there were almost no pandas left in the U.S. amid a “deteriorating” relationship with China and the U.S., as if China just decided to pull the plug and abruptly take them all back.

Sure, if you want to make the argument that contracts weren’t renewed or offered to new places because of tensions, there could be an argument there. But all these pandas returned because their contract was expired, not because China demanded them back out of spite. Oh, media.
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..and it's clear they were not renewed because of a deterioration of relationships between the US & China. I'm not sure this is a media frenzy to be totally honest with you.
 
Cat-Man said:
..and it's clear they were not renewed because of a deterioration of relationships between the US & China. I'm not sure this is a media frenzy to be totally honest with you.
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It is a media frenzy. The panda contracts were not renewed because of the age of the bears and nothing more. Each pairs contract was up and all of the bears were older and no longer eligible to breed. China believes that all pandas should live out their retirement years and die in China, and as much as most of us may disagree, it’s chinas right.
 
Has any article given any indication of the substance of these new panda deals? I'd hate to see the pandas return if it's with the same $1 million a year loans, with little to no accountability and transparency over that money. Granted, I don't expect it to be anything different, but unless it is I see the potential of giant pandas returning to the United States to be a horrible, unethical decision and I'll lose some respect for San Diego if they go through with this.
 
Neil chace said:
Has any article given any indication of the substance of these new panda deals? I'd hate to see the pandas return if it's with the same $1 million a year loans, with little to no accountability and transparency over that money. Granted, I don't expect it to be anything different, but unless it is I see the potential of giant pandas returning to the United States to be a horrible, unethical decision and I'll lose some respect for San Diego if they go through with this.
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I'm confused by your logic. You'll loose respect to San Diego for agreeing to the same terms they've already abided by previously, but the previous terms haven't led you to loose respect for them currently?

I understand having some sort of self righteous option on this forum that pandas in US zoos is somehow terrible, but we can skip all those discussions for how tiresome they've become.
 
NAIB Volunteer said:
I'm confused by your logic. You'll loose respect to San Diego for agreeing to the same terms they've already abided by previously, but the previous terms haven't led you to loose respect for them currently?

I understand having some sort of self righteous option on this forum that pandas in US zoos is somehow terrible, but we can skip all those discussions for how tiresome they've become.
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The realities of relations between China and the United States have changed a lot since their last loan. At the end of the day, pandas in zoos is a touchy, political subject in a way no other species is, and I agree it has been touched on a lot on here before so we can leave this be for now.
 
E Maximus said:
It is a media frenzy. The panda contracts were not renewed because of the age of the bears and nothing more. Each pairs contract was up and all of the bears were older and no longer eligible to breed. China believes that all pandas should live out their retirement years and die in China, and as much as most of us may disagree, it’s chinas right.
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If this is all that's happened, I'm absolutely fine with that personally, but if that is the case then I think some clear and open communication should have been made to the public by either the US holders of the animals or China. I don't think it would have caused any more fuss than what happened instead.

I'm pretty sure what happened in Memphis is a major part of what lead into the media narrative.
 
JVM said:
If this is all that's happened, I'm absolutely fine with that personally, but if that is the case then I think some clear and open communication should have been made to the public by either the US holders of the animals or China. I don't think it would have caused any more fuss than what happened instead.

I'm pretty sure what happened in Memphis is a major part of what lead into the media narrative.
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I mean the zoos were open. National stated several times it was due to their contract ending as well did San Diego and Atlanta is also being EXTREMELY transparent when it comes to why theirs are leaving this year. The only issue is it gets no media attention, Memphis was different altogether as both their bears had skin issues now why that is I don’t think anyone knows but both Chinese and US officials stated they were healthy but there was so much attention on the people who were live streaming at the zoos and accusing them of abuse towards the bears unfortunately.
 
E Maximus said:
I mean the zoos were open. National stated several times it was due to their contract ending as well did San Diego and Atlanta is also being EXTREMELY transparent when it comes to why theirs are leaving this year. The only issue is it gets no media attention,
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The contract ending they were transparent about, neither me nor anyone in the media has disputed that much, and the questions have generally been about why the contracts were ending, about which the public statements were much, much less clear.

Coverage from Politico:
Officially, the bears are leaving because the lease is up. But the Smithsonian is mum about prospects for replacements, as well as about why negotiations for a new lease fizzled. And their decision to hold the weeklong “Panda Palooza” farewell festival that concluded last Sunday makes it look like they don’t expect a quick return of an animal that had come to represent the zoo itself.
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Cooverage from NBC:
National Zoo officials have remained tight-lipped about the prospects of renewing or extending the agreement, and repeated attempts to gain comment on the state of the negotiations did not receive a response. However, the public stance of the zoo has been decidedly pessimistic — treating these remaining months as the end of an era. The zoo just finished a weeklong celebration called Panda Palooza: A Giant Farewell
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The National Zoo could have easily shared that the contract was over so the post-reproductive animals could return to China, and that younger animals would be on the way to continue the breeding program.

I admit I haven't seen any of Altanta's statements.
 
JVM said:
The contract ending they were transparent about, neither me nor anyone in the media has disputed that much, and the questions have generally been about why the contracts were ending, about which the public statements were much, much less clear.

Coverage from Politico:


Cooverage from NBC:


The National Zoo could have easily shared that the contract was over so the post-reproductive animals could return to China, and that younger animals would be on the way to continue the breeding program.

I admit I haven't seen any of Altanta's statements.
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Exactly this.
 
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