Edinburgh Zoo Giant pandas coming to Edinburgh zoo?

Sun Wukong said:
If You take a look at Chengdu and Wolong, You know why: they are almost "mass-producing" Giant Pandas now in China.
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They certainly have put something in the water at those to centres. It would be nice to see giant panda's in the UK. However the loan fee seems too much to pay for most zoo's even Chester are put of with the loan price. Not long ago on this forum it was reported that Edinburgh Zoo was struggling to raise the cash for the development of their master plan and now all of sudden they are looking at keeping an animal that would cost them a $1 million dollars a year to have on show!

Is it me or does something not add up there? Have they sudden managed to find another funding solution?
 
Population is climbing up. There is talk about that in Sichuan and Gansu pandas there are different subspecies, but then again just on someones blog.
Hope i find more details about the actual pandas that are coming to edinburgh.
Although they are at a high since a long time pandas still need help, hoepfully the pais will breed they have got 10 years for cubs to emerge. Of course still the property of China.
 
snowleopard said:
When giant pandas toured Australia and New Zealand around 20 years ago, spending 3 months or more at a chosen zoo, visitors flocked in huge numbers.
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In 1986 the Chinese Government offered Australia a temporary loan of two Giant Panda's for their 1988 bi-centenary... These Panda's spent three months in Melbourne Zoo and three at Taronga Zoo before coming to Auckland in October 1988 for a final three month stay... A new enclosure was built (at both Taronga and Auckland Zoos) for the pair, Fei Fei and Xiao Xiao... The pair attracted over 300,000 people in their 3 month Auckland stay...

Source:
Giant Panda - Photo Gallery

General notes:
The exhibit built at Taronga is now in use by its Gorilla troop and Auckland's by a pair of Orangutans.
Amenities were improved at Auckland and still benifit the zoo today.
The 300,000 visitors in three months at Auckland came at a time when the zoo was attracting 300,000 - 400,000 yearly..!
 
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@NZ Jeremy: for the most part giant pandas are indeed a gold mine, and if babies arrive then they are a neverending ATM machine that spits out millions of dollars. Having said that, they also cost a fantastic amount of money and those that don't give birth can see their star wane as the years go by. Adelaide Zoo will be the next big testing ground for pandas, and there will certainly be a lot of construction going on at that zoo over the next year.
 
I wouldn't think so. Most of the time it isn't the zoo's fault if they die.
I never understood the whole loan fee thing, I find it a bit mean that China does it, especially now there are quite a few that have been born in captivity.
I think It's like Africa saying "you have to pay us to keep African elephants", or any other place with any other species.
 
ashley-h said:
I wouldn't think so. Most of the time it isn't the zoo's fault if they die.
I never understood the whole loan fee thing, I find it a bit mean that China does it, especially now there are quite a few that have been born in captivity.
I think It's like Africa saying "you have to pay us to keep African elephants", or any other place with any other species.
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It could be a really good way to make zoos support in-situ conservation. Zoos are required to pay the Okapi Conservation Project in the DRC to keep Okapi (1996 SSP/EEP agreement). And both San Diego Zoo and Lowry Park Zoo in Tampa, FL support conservation in Swaziland as part of the deal when they acquired elephants a few years back. I wish Australia would do the like for Tasmanian Devils and Platypus or the US for Manatees. It would especially be a good deal for poorer countries with rich diversity that dont have the resources to protect their biodiversity.
 
One persumes the loan money goes to protect of the wild animals as well as the up keep of the panda's within the breeding centres.

Plus the zoo could argue that Panda's in the zoo will help raise more money for in situ projects.
 
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Sun Wukong said:
When Yan-Yan died in Berlin zoo last year, there was a bit of a tiff between Berlin and China (although I think most was made up by the media). Yan Yan's remain will most likely be exhibited in China.
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I thought Berlin's pair were from the political 'gift' era... not a loan as the article states? So surely they (Berlin) could exhibit the stuffed YanYan if they wanted?

Presumably Bao Bao is still alive..?
 
Bao Bao was still there in March. I think he's the oldest Panda in captivity. Any idea if Berlin will replace him when he dies? Hope they would give them a better enclosure if they did.
 
ashley-h said:
Bao Bao was still there in March. I think he's the oldest Panda in captivity. Any idea if Berlin will replace him when he dies? Hope they would give them a better enclosure if they did.
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Bao Bao was still alive a few days ago. Berlin zoo said unofficially they would try to loan a young pair from China after he dies. Payable, if I understand. No idea about enclosure.

Giant pandas in Berlin are against all stories about pandas as crowd-pullers. They are in carnivore house for years, well visible, well signposted, and I never seen people specially interested at them. People watched lions nearby, which had eye-catching raised enclosure. And monkeys. And hippos in their nice futuristic pool with underwater viewing.
 
@Pertinax: Bao Bao and Tjen Tjen (who died in 1984) were political gifts; Yan Yan, brought to the zoo in 1995, was a loan. Therefore, Yan Yan's remains won't be displayed in Berlin, but in China.

Even though they cashed in a lot last year due to Knut, I'm unsure whether the Berlin Zoo is willing to get another pair of Giant Pandas, once the unfortunate event occurs and Bao-Bao is no longer. Tierpark Berlin-Friedrichsfelde would actually be a more promising place for modern Giant Panda enclosures than the crowded inner city zoo. Despite Jurek7's observations, I did see visitors interested in Berlin's Pandas-and saw crows accumulate especially during feeding times. Better housing and presentation could improve this status, but I think it's better to leave good ol' Bao-Bao enjoy his retirement undisturbed...;)
 
Well I wish Edinburgh luck in securing their pandas, but I hope they've done their sums properly, and I also hope they start making some serious improvements to the zoo access and parking because there is no way the current amenities would cope with 1 million visitors a year.

An article in the Strathspey Herald mentioned that the RZSS experience of keeping and breeding Chinese species at HWP was a key factor in the negotiations with China.
 
Recieved this in the RZSS Newsletter today:

RZSS has been working with officials in China to bring a breeding pair of giant pandas to Edinburgh Zoo. If successful, Edinburgh would be only the 8th zoo in the Western hemisphere to care for this enigmatic and endangered species. It has been proposed that the pair will be on loan to RZSS for 10 years, in which time they would hopefully give birth to cubs.

Zoo representatives visited China recently with a view to establishing a closer relationship with the Chinese in the field of conservation and associated research. It was during this visit that a Letter of Intent was signed by both parties. This document signifies an initial commitment to bring giant pandas to Edinburgh Zoo.

The population of giant pandas in the wild is currently around 1500. While this is still far too low, the population is being sustained due to research being carried out by selected zoos across the world. David Windmill, Chief Executive of RZSS, said: “Working with giant pandas means so much more to us than introducing a new species to our collection. It is an opportunity to work on a global level with other conservationists to gain a better understanding of the giant panda, the threats they face, and what we can do to ensure their survival.

We have been working on this for nearly a year and, having just returned from China, we are now in the position where we can publicly announce our intention to care for giant pandas. We hope to have giant pandas in Edinburgh Zoo by 2009, which coincides with our centenary. However, this will be a long process and there are still many details to be ironed out. We have received strong support from both UK and Scottish Governments for this initiative. It is essential this continues if we are to reach agreement with the Chinese.”
 
Sun Wukong said:
@Pertinax: Bao Bao and Tjen Tjen (who died in 1984) were political gifts; Yan Yan, brought to the zoo in 1995, was a loan. Therefore, Yan Yan's remains won't be displayed in Berlin, but in China.
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Thanks for enlightening me- now I understand the situation....
 
Jurek7 said:
Giant pandas in Berlin are against all stories about pandas as crowd-pullers. They are in carnivore house for years, well visible, well signposted, and I never seen people specially interested at them.
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You could say much the same about London's last pair Ching Ching and Chia Chia- after the initial few years at least. I believe I also saw Berlin's Bao Bao on loan at London after their own male died- again I noted there seemed to be remarkably little interest in them at that time. Compare to the Chi Chi & An An days when their doomed 'honeymoons' elicited a lot of interest(due to the press interest no doubt) I think its a case of how the Pandas are presented, whether they are newly arrived or long term inhabitants, and of course, if they breed there's a big surge of renewed interest. But older Pandas which sleep a lot don't excite the public much, perhaps understandably.
 
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