Global Captive Orca Population

[Jonathan Petersson]

A killer whale was transported out of Kamogawa Sea World to Suma Sea World earlier today. It is presumed to be Ran or Lara but no announcement has been made yet.

According to a recent visitor to the Port of Nagoya Aquarium, the facility is currently trying to breed Earth and Lynn with Stella's departure.

One of the Kamogawa females also recently underwent an AI procedure but I am unsure which individual it was at this time.

 

[Jambo]

A killer whale was transported out of Kamogawa Sea World to Suma Sea World earlier today. It is presumed to be Ran or Lara but no announcement has been made yet.

According to a recent visitor to the Port of Nagoya Aquarium, the facility is currently trying to breed Earth and Lynn with Stella's departure.

One of the Kamogawa females also recently underwent an AI procedure but I am unsure which individual it was at this time.

Not surprised to hear that Earth and Lynn are being breed together. Boosting numbers there would be on the agenda following Stella's departure.

Not confirmed, but some reports indicate the female transferred to Suma may in fact be Lara. It would make sense as Ran still has application within the AI program, whereas I believe they've tried (and failed) with Lara in the past.

 

[Jambo]

Not confirmed, but some reports indicate the female transferred to Suma may in fact be Lara. It would make sense as Ran still has application within the AI program, whereas I believe they've tried (and failed) with Lara in the past.

Conflicting reports coming in now are saying it's Ran, not Lara. Guess we'll have to wait for something official to confirm.

Anyhow, it's great that Stella finally has companionship; fingers crossed introductions progress well.

 

[katinakalinakaterina]

Conflicting reports coming in now are saying it's Ran, not Lara. Guess we'll have to wait for something official to confirm.

Anyhow, it's great that Stella finally has companionship; fingers crossed introductions progress well.

According to regular visitors, Ran is missing this morning. This would make sense as Ran was with Stella at Nagoya for a few years back from 2011 to 2015 and has experienced transfers before.

Disappointing to hear Nagoya are attempting to breed Earth and Lynn, especially when they managed to prevent this for years, would hope they were still looking to do AI with Chimelong.

 

[Orca obsessed]

Here’s a recent clip I found of the orca transfer: https://youtube.com/shorts/i2gO0Z4aaTs?si=3Mek31RnNiz3BNPn

 

[Orca obsessed]

According to regular visitors, Ran is missing this morning. This would make sense as Ran was with Stella at Nagoya for a few years back from 2011 to 2015 and has experienced transfers before.

I’m confused as why they only transferred one of them I personally think they should’ve transferred Lynn as well as Ran since they had a mother and daughter like relationship and Lovey doesn’t really like Lynn or engage with her unlike Ran

 

[katinakalinakaterina]

I’m confused as why they only transferred one of them I personally think they should’ve transferred Lynn as well as Ran since they had a mother and daughter like relationship and Lovey doesn’t really like Lynn or engage with her unlike Ran

Nagoya own Lynn and I doubt they would willingly give her up, or sell her to Granvista, as that would leave them with just Earth, they can potentially breed more whales using Lynn, although hopefully not with Earth, Kamogawa were sensible enough to avoid doing this when they sold him to Nagoya and took Ran back. I know Ran and Lara have had a few aggressive interactions recently so that likely factored in too. Lovey has never met Lynn so not sure what you mean by this?

 

[katinakalinakaterina]

Videos from visitors to Kamogawa Seaworld confirm it is Ran that has been transferred to Kobe, no news as to how the transfer went at this moment.

 

[Orca obsessed]

Nagoya own Lynn and I doubt they would willingly give her up, or sell her to Granvista, as that would leave them with just Earth, they can potentially breed more whales using Lynn, although hopefully not with Earth, Kamogawa were sensible enough to avoid doing this when they sold him to Nagoya and took Ran back. I know Ran and Lara have had a few aggressive interactions recently so that likely factored in too. Lovey has never met Lynn so not sure what you mean by this?

Sorry I meant Luna

 

[A MermaidNamedMiranda]

I’m confused as why they only transferred one of them I personally think they should’ve transferred Lynn as well as Ran since they had a mother and daughter like relationship and Lovey doesn’t really like Lynn or engage with her unlike Ran

LUNA and Ran are niece and aunt. Their relationship was that of two little sisters, as Luna was the last baby and Ran (like Lynn) is still very young, and was happy to find a new playmate after being separated from Lynn.

I would far rather that Earth and Lynn breed naturally, than having her impregnated by a stranger. They love each other and their bloodline is pure. Knowing their lineage, their temperaments,their health and behavioral history is a plus. No surprises. I am only sorry that they did not put them together sooner. Before Stella was transferred, they had been separated for 19 months. Stella could have been a great help to Lynn with a calf.

Luna is most likely Lovey's last offspring. With the recent loss of the calf, you would take her daughter too, after already taking her son in 2015 ? Stella lost her first 4 daughters and now Lynn. I am glad that she will be reunited with Ran. I hope it will be a happy one, but I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[Jambo]

bloodline is pure.

A calf from them would be incest... the rationale you present is interesting to say the least.

Luna is most likely Lovey's last offspring.

That is a resounding no. Kamagowa, by all accounts, are still trying to breed Lovey. I wouldn't be surprised if they AI'd here asap. She's very important to the continuation of their breeding program; and, she's only 26 years of age too (so nowhere near menopause).

 

[A MermaidNamedMiranda]

A calf from them would be incest... the rationale you present is interesting to say the least.

That is a resounding no. Kamagowa, by all accounts, are still trying to breed Lovey. I wouldn't be surprised if they AI'd here asap. She's very important to the continuation of their breeding program; and, she's only 26 years of age too (so nowhere near menopause).

As if it would be the first time.

2006
18th of September - Katina gives birth to Nalani at SeaWorld Orlando. The sire is Taku, one of Katina's other calves.

2010
13th of October - Kohana gives birth to Adán at Loro Parque.[3] The sire is Keto, one of Kohana's uncles(her mother, Takara, is Keto's half sister).

2012
3rd of August - Kohana gives birth to Victoria at Loro Parque.[4] The sire is Keto, one of Kohana's uncles(her mother, Takara, is Keto's half sister).

2013
20th of November - Wikie gives birth to Keijo at Marineland Antibes. The sire is Valentin, one of Wikie's half brothers(their father is Kim I
I).

The Southern Resident pod is also well known for being inbred.

I am not the one that opened this conversation.Jonathan Pedersson did. Has it occurred to anyone that Nagoya may have put Lynn on birth control? We make all of their life choices for them. What gives us the right to tell them who to love. They met when they were 7 & 3. They were not raised together. Stella and Oscar were wild caught together, meaning they could have been brother and sister, half siblings, or cousins. That would make Oscar and Lovey uncle and niece or 2nd cousins. The family is already inbred. It happens in the best of families.

Lovey had not given birth to a calf for 12 years before the recent calf. It is believed that the sire was an orca from Chimelong. Why did Granvista wait 12 years, or have there been other miscarriages/stillbirths/ calves that did not live, in the meantime,:that they have also not acknowledged ?

Strange that an animal who is "very important to the continuation of their breeding program" would not have produced any offspring in over a decade. Very strange, and I speak from experience. Breeding her back so quickly would not be wise.

Ran was supposedly taken back by Kamogawa (in 2015 in exchange for Earth) to be trained for AI. Why did neither she, nor Lara conceive?There is definitely something "fishy" going on at Granvista.

 

[Orca obsessed]

Ran was supposedly taken back by Kamogawa (in 2015 in exchange for Earth) to be trained for AI. Why did neither she, nor Lara conceive?There is definitely something "fishy" going on at Granvista.

According to captive cetacean wiki Ran was supposedly pregnant at the start of 2021 but in June/July she reappeared very thin

 

[Orca obsessed]

would take her daughter too, after already taking her son in 2015

I’ve heard that Luna is getting raked as bad as Earth was…

 

[PantheraLeoMelanochaita]

As if it would be the first time.

2006
18th of September - Katina gives birth to Nalani at SeaWorld Orlando. The sire is Taku, one of Katina's other calves.

2010
13th of October - Kohana gives birth to Adán at Loro Parque.[3] The sire is Keto, one of Kohana's uncles(her mother, Takara, is Keto's half sister).

2012
3rd of August - Kohana gives birth to Victoria at Loro Parque.[4] The sire is Keto, one of Kohana's uncles(her mother, Takara, is Keto's half sister).

2013
20th of November - Wikie gives birth to Keijo at Marineland Antibes. The sire is Valentin, one of Wikie's half brothers(their father is Kim I
I).

The Southern Resident pod is also well known for being inbred.

I am not the one that opened this conversation.Jonathan Pedersson did. Has it occurred to anyone that Nagoya may have put Lynn on birth control? We make all of their life choices for them. What gives us the right to tell them who to love. They met when they were 7 & 3. They were not raised together. Stella and Oscar were wild caught together, meaning they could have been brother and sister, half siblings, or cousins. That would make Oscar and Lovey uncle and niece or 2nd cousins. The family is already inbred. It happens in the best of families.

Lovey had not given birth to a calf for 12 years before the recent calf. It is believed that the sire was an orca from Chimelong. Why did Granvista wait 12 years, or have there been other miscarriages/stillbirths/ calves that did not live, in the meantime,:that they have also not acknowledged ?

Strange that an animal who is "very important to the continuation of their breeding program" would not have produced any offspring in over a decade. Very strange, and I speak from experience. Breeding her back so quickly would not be wise.

Ran was supposedly taken back by Kamogawa (in 2015 in exchange for Earth) to be trained for AI. Why did neither she, nor Lara conceive?There is definitely something "fishy" going on at Granvista.

I know this is probably bait, but seriously? Just because the captive orca industry has bred incestuous calves before doesn’t justify them doing it again. “As if it would be the first time” I’m pretty sure everyone here is well-versed enough about captive orcas to know that it wouldn’t be the first time captive orcas were conceived through incest without that big list. Since (presumably) nobody here works as a trainer, we don’t know if these incestuous orcas have suffered any negative health effects from being inbred because we don’t have access to their veterinary history, only to the info the parks release to the public. And the Southern Residents are inbred because their population is too small to maintain healthy genetic diversity, not because they just love to produce incestuous offspring. Their high levels of inbreeding are actually contributing to their decline: Inbreeding Contributes to Decline of Endangered Killer Whales
I know that most people here are pro-cap, and even though I am firmly anti-cap for orcas I’m usually able to respect our differences of opinions, because I know that people on this website are usually pretty thoughtful and I myself was pro-cap for a long time. However, defending a marine park allowing such closely related animals to breed just because you want to see more calves in captivity is not right. Yes, if they conceive naturally it will be “their choice”, but since they don’t know they’re related to each other and haven’t been taught by their families to mate with orcas they aren’t related to because of the messed-up social structures seem in captivity, the mating can’t really be called their “choice” or their “love”. Plus, any facility that cares for animals, no matter the species, has a responsibility to prevent their animals from doing things like this for their own good. If the captive orca population in Japan cannot continue to reproduce without incest, then it shouldn’t reproduce at all.

 

[BlobfishBoy]

I know this is probably bait, but seriously? Just because the captive orca industry has bred incestuous calves before doesn’t justify them doing it again. “As if it would be the first time” I’m pretty sure everyone here is well-versed enough about captive orcas to know that it wouldn’t be the first time captive orcas were conceived through incest without that big list. Since (presumably) nobody here works as a trainer, we don’t know if these incestuous orcas have suffered any negative health effects from being inbred because we don’t have access to their veterinary history, only to the info the parks release to the public. And the Southern Residents are inbred because their population is too small to maintain healthy genetic diversity, not because they just love to produce incestuous offspring. Their high levels of inbreeding are actually contributing to their decline: Inbreeding Contributes to Decline of Endangered Killer Whales
I know that most people here are pro-cap, and even though I am firmly anti-cap for orcas I’m usually able to respect our differences of opinions, because I know that people on this website are usually pretty thoughtful and I myself was pro-cap for a long time. However, defending a marine park allowing such closely related animals to breed just because you want to see more calves in captivity is not right. Yes, if they conceive naturally it will be “their choice”, but since they don’t know they’re related to each other and haven’t been taught by their families to mate with orcas they aren’t related to because of the messed-up social structures seem in captivity, the mating can’t really be called their “choice” or their “love”. Plus, any facility that cares for animals, no matter the species, has a responsibility to prevent their animals from doing things like this for their own good. If the captive orca population in Japan cannot continue to reproduce without incest, then it shouldn’t reproduce at all.

Definitely agree here. If Port of Nagoya wants to breed Lynn they should be doing AI with her. If they want direct contact between Lynn and Earth (which is good for them socially) they can use BC. There’s no need to let them breed with each other.

 

[Jambo]

Definitely agree here. If Port of Nagoya wants to breed Lynn they should be doing AI with her. If they want direct contact between Lynn and Earth (which is good for them socially) they can use BC. There’s no need to let them breed with each other.

A move to breed from them naturally would purely be for nothing more than a business move. Yes AI can be costly, but that is realistically the only way from which Lynn should have a chance of breeding.

 

[A MermaidNamedMiranda]

A move to breed from them naturally would purely be for nothing more than a business move. Yes AI can be costly, but that is realistically the only way from which Lynn should have a chance of breeding.

As I stated before, Stella and Lynn have been in a separate pool from Earth since August 29, 2022. Stella was transferred from Nagoya to Suma on March 29, 2024 and Lynn and Earth were suddenly together for the first time in 19 months. Why? Out of kindness? Yes, I believe that is ALL that it is, because Nagoya, unlike Granvista did not make the decision to transfer Stella. It was out of their hands. They had no say in the matter. So they are doing the kindest thing for Earth and Lynn, who are doing the best they can, given the circumstances.

Japan does not need to "AI" Lynn or Lovey, or any of their orcas, unless they decide to. Japan does not need to bring sick (inbred) orcas from France to pollute their gene pool, or breed through artificial insemination with Russian-caught Chinese orcas unless they decide to. And most importantly Japan does not need to do or care what anyone outside of Japan says that they should do or not do, with THEIR orcas. The U.S. especially, has a bad habit of assuming that they have a right to tell other countries what they SHOULD do. They don't. That is why Japan will still keep and breed orcas in human care, will still perform waterworks, and will still maintain their traditions and way of life. Because that is their right.

 

[Jambo]

Japan does not need to bring sick (inbred) orcas from France to pollute their gene pool

Ironic coming from someone who seems to support further inbreeding within the Japanese population.

And most importantly Japan does not need to do or care what anyone outside of Japan says that they should do or not do, with THEIR orcas. The U.S. especially, has a bad habit of assuming that they have a right to tell other countries what they SHOULD do. They don't. That is why Japan will still keep and breed orcas in human care, will still perform waterworks, and will still maintain their traditions and way of life. Because that is their right.

I'm not sure where your getting the idea that other countries are telling Japan what to do with their whales - Japan themselves are electing to undertake AI to avoid inbreeding.

 

[katinakalinakaterina]

Lovely has sustained an injury to her jaw, apparently during the transfer process of Ran to Kobe, it looks as though the tip of her lower jaw has been torn off, not dissimilar to how Nakai was injured a few years back when he was missing a large chunk of his chin.