How popular would recently extinct animals be in zoos?

Brayden Delashmutt

Brayden Delashmutt

Well-Known Member
Didn’t know where to put this thread but thought it’d be an interesting prompt. We know thylacines achieved decent popularity in and around Australia, and were present in well known institutions like the Bronx and London. Given that they had survived/were resurrected, how common do you think they’d be? What about dodos and great auks? Or more obscure species like broad billed parrots, imperial woodpeckers?
 
Brayden Delashmutt said:
Didn’t know where to put this thread but thought it’d be an interesting prompt. We know thylacines achieved decent popularity in and around Australia, and were present in well known institutions like the Bronx and London. Given that they had survived/were resurrected, how common do you think they’d be? What about dodos and great auks? Or more obscure species like broad billed parrots, imperial woodpeckers?
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Given that a film and an advertising campaign have hugely raised the profile of the Meerkat, I suspect that any species, with similar treatment, could become just as popular as what is basically a jumped up ferret!
 
I believe that had thylacines not be extinct the timeline would be way more different than it is now. They might’ve had a higher chance to be known amongst the public and have a greater cultural relevance like koalas had. But they might also have little to no cultural relevance and interest for zoos like how bandicoots and brush-tail possums face.

Brayden Delashmutt said:
What about dodos and great auks? Or more obscure species like broad billed parrots, imperial woodpeckers?
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That would also depend on chance and wether or not people would be able to understand their husbandry and breeding before any hypothetical trade ban makes sure they won’t leave their home range.
 
We have had this discussion in the past in several threads. Long story short: people tend to glorify things they lost and can't have anymore. Given how dismissive contemporaries were about captive dodos, thylacines etc., I doubt that modern zoo visitors would appreciate them today if they hadn't gone extinct. Same goes for the quagga, bluebuck, bubal hartebeest, Schomburgk deer, Carribean monk seal, giant lemurs, Tasmanian emu, most moas, slender-billed curlew etc. Great auks would probably be commonly misinterpreted as "those boring pseudo-penguins".
Some visitors would probably enjoy the tameness of the warrah (and cause problems due to illegally feeding them or getting them as exotic pets).
Steller's sea cows, giant moas and elephant birds would have some fans among zoo visitors due to their large size. The latter's eggs would be a sought after souvenir for the Easter holidays. Haast's eagles and Gigantohierax suarezi would definitely be popular, however, probably not in flight shows...
Anti-captivity lobbyists would protest against Baijis in dolphinaria.
Dwarf elephants and mammoths would probably be quite popular among zoo visitors, while misinterpreted as "hairy baby elephants".
Ibizan dwarf vipers and Mekosuchus crocs would probably be more common in private collections than in zoos. The same would probably be true for passenger pigeons, Cuban macaws and Carolina parakeets.

Etc etc
 
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Tetzoo Quizzer said:
Are Peregrine Pigeons hunted by Passenger Falcons?
(Yes, I know it’s just a mistype that we all can and do make)
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You were saying? ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if some Ectopistes migratorius specimens fell prey to Falco peregrinus anatum back in the days, if that's what you are referring to...:p
 
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Batto said:
Dwarf elephants and mammoths would probably be quite popular among zoo visitors, while misinterpreted as "hairy baby elephants".
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The idea of mammoths and dwarf elephants being alive opens a big cans of worms. How would the existence of mammoths and dwarf elephants alter the distribution and demographics of African and Asian elephants? Would mammoths be a great choice for zoos that are otherwise too far north to keep the current extant elephant species? Would dwarf elephants dominate the zoo world as an alternative for larger elephants just like how more zoos are going for pygmy hippopotamuses over Nile hippopotamuses? Or would they be like African forest elephants which they don’t have a established program and only a handful of random zoos around the world keep a small handful of individuals?
 
PossumRoach said:
The idea of mammoths and dwarf elephants being alive opens a big cans of worms. How would the existence of mammoths and dwarf elephants alter the distribution and demographics of African and Asian elephants? Would mammoths be a great choice for zoos that are otherwise too far north to keep the current extant elephant species? Would dwarf elephants dominate the zoo world as an alternative for larger elephants just like how more zoos are going for pygmy hippopotamuses over Nile hippopotamuses? Or would they be like African forest elephants which they don’t have a established program and only a handful of random zoos around the world keep a small handful of individuals?
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The cultural and historical impact and impression of both Elephas and Loxodonta on humanity would probably be a different one if other proboscideans were still alive today. Especially giants among giants like Palaeoloxodon namadicus or Mammuthus columbi.
However, the extinction of the North African or the Syrian elephant seems to have fallen into oblivion for most people.
 

I do remember reading that in his book, but I also remember reading it was described as emaciated and depressing to look at

Plus, native wildlife displays are almost always seen as less interesting
 
PossumRoach said:
Would dwarf elephants dominate the zoo world as an alternative for larger elephants just like how more zoos are going for pygmy hippopotamuses over Nile hippopotamuses? Or would they be like African forest elephants which they don’t have a established program and only a handful of random zoos around the world keep a small handful of individuals?
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Well, beings that they would’ve been relatively easy to access (if they survived) I think it’d be easy to create a large captive presence for them at least in non-AZA zoos looking to keep an elephant of some sort and a few southern European facilities

I doubt they’d replace African or Asian elephants but I think they could be exhibited alongside them or in smaller collections well enough
 
Brayden Delashmutt said:
Given that great auks were “the original penguins”
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...which is evidenced by its genus name Pinguinus. Yeah, I'm very much aware of that. However, being "the original" doesn't always guarantee success over the imitation, as evidenced by Oreo and Hydrox - that also accidently happen to be black and white...;). For the majority of zoo visitors, penguins are generally more iconic than auks.
 
Brayden Delashmutt said:
New I do remember reading that in his book, but I also remember reading it was described as emaciated and depressing to look at
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Then you might also remember the description of thylacines in captivity in Brehm's Tierleben (2nd version):

(...)über das Gefangenleben des Beutelwolfes ist wenig zu berichten. Wie seine ganze Verwandtschaft dumm und geistlos, vermag er kaum mehr als flüchtige Teilnahme zu erregen. Frisch gefangene sollen sich im Anfang sehr trotzig und widerspenstig gebärden, mit Katzenbehendigkeit in ihrem Käfige oder im Gebälke eines Hauses umherklettern und Sätze von zwei bis drei Meter Höhe ausführen. Bei langer Gefangenschaft legt sich wie die Beweglichkeit so auch das wilde Wesen angesichts eines Menschen; doch befreunden sich Beutelwölfe niemals wirklich mit ihrem Wärter, lernen denselben nur mangelhaft kennen und kaum von andern Leuten unterscheiden, Verhalten sich ihm gegenüber auch vollkommen gleichgültig und geraten höchstens angesichts des ihnen dargereichten Fleisches einigermaßen in Aufregung. Im übrigen laufen sie stundenlang in ihrem Käfige umher, ohne sich um die Außenwelt viel zu kümmern, oder liegen ruhend und schlafend ebenso teilnahmlos auf einer und derselben Stelle. Ihr klares, dunkelbraunes Auge starrt dem Beobachter leer entgegen und entbehrt vollständig des Ausdrucks eines wirklichen Raubtierauges. Jedem Wildhunde und jeder Katze leuchtet das Wesen aus dem Auge hervor, in dem des Beutelwolfes dagegen vermag man nichts zu lesen als Geistlosigkeit und Beschränktheit. In dieser Hinsicht wird das Auge allerdings auch bei ihm zum Dolmetscher des Geistes.

In case your German is a bit rusty:

(...)there is little to say about the life of the Tasmanian wolf in captivity. Like all his relatives, it is stupid and mindless and is rarely able to arouse more than fleeting interest. Newly caught wolfs are said to be very defiant and unruly at first, climbing about in their cage or in the beams of a house with the agility of a cat and jumping from two to three metres high. After long captivity, their agility and wild nature in the presence of humans subside; however, Tasmanian wolves never really make friends with their keeper, only get to know them inadequately and can hardly distinguish them from other people. They are also completely indifferent towards them and only become somewhat agitated at the most when faced with the meat offered to them. Apart from that, they run about in their cage for hours without paying much attention to the outside world, or lie resting and sleeping in the same spot, just as apathetic. Their clear, dark brown eyes stare blankly at the observer and completely lack the expression of a real predator's eye. The essence of every wild dog and cat shines out from their eyes, but in the eyes of the Tasmanian wolf one can read nothing but lack of spirit and narrow-mindedness. In this respect, however, the eye also becomes the interpreter of the spirit.

Not a very flattering description, is it?
Brayden Delashmutt said:
Plus, native wildlife displays are almost always seen as less interesting
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In this case, the native wolf is apparently more interesting than the exotic "Zebra dog", as the thylacine is also called in Brehm's Tierleben.
 
Brayden Delashmutt said:
Given that great auks were “the original penguins” I actually could see it going the other way. They’re unique looking birds and I doubt they’d be considered “boring”
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Considering the fact that even those species of auk which are extant are exceedingly unusual in captivity, and that there is no record of a Great Auk having ever been held in a zoological collection - despite the fact that several such collections existed during the timespan that the species still lived - I find it doubtful that they would have been any different.
 
FBBird said:
Given that a film and an advertising campaign have hugely raised the profile of the Meerkat, I suspect that any species, with similar treatment, could become just as popular as what is basically a jumped up ferret!
Click to expand...
While I see your point, some species are far more easily advertised than others. A "jumped up ferret" with Disney movie appearances under its non-existing belt and the ability to stand up is much easier to market to the public than a slightly eerie-looking Balearic Islands cave goat or a plain Polynesian tree snail ...;)
 
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Batto said:
Then you might also remember the description of thylacines in captivity in Brehm's Tierleben (2nd version):

(...)über das Gefangenleben des Beutelwolfes ist wenig zu berichten. Wie seine ganze Verwandtschaft dumm und geistlos, vermag er kaum mehr als flüchtige Teilnahme zu erregen. Frisch gefangene sollen sich im Anfang sehr trotzig und widerspenstig gebärden, mit Katzenbehendigkeit in ihrem Käfige oder im Gebälke eines Hauses umherklettern und Sätze von zwei bis drei Meter Höhe ausführen. Bei langer Gefangenschaft legt sich wie die Beweglichkeit so auch das wilde Wesen angesichts eines Menschen; doch befreunden sich Beutelwölfe niemals wirklich mit ihrem Wärter, lernen denselben nur mangelhaft kennen und kaum von andern Leuten unterscheiden, Verhalten sich ihm gegenüber auch vollkommen gleichgültig und geraten höchstens angesichts des ihnen dargereichten Fleisches einigermaßen in Aufregung. Im übrigen laufen sie stundenlang in ihrem Käfige umher, ohne sich um die Außenwelt viel zu kümmern, oder liegen ruhend und schlafend ebenso teilnahmlos auf einer und derselben Stelle. Ihr klares, dunkelbraunes Auge starrt dem Beobachter leer entgegen und entbehrt vollständig des Ausdrucks eines wirklichen Raubtierauges. Jedem Wildhunde und jeder Katze leuchtet das Wesen aus dem Auge hervor, in dem des Beutelwolfes dagegen vermag man nichts zu lesen als Geistlosigkeit und Beschränktheit. In dieser Hinsicht wird das Auge allerdings auch bei ihm zum Dolmetscher des Geistes.

In case your German is a bit rusty:

(...)there is little to say about the life of the Tasmanian wolf in captivity. Like all his relatives, it is stupid and mindless and is rarely able to arouse more than fleeting interest. Newly caught wolfs are said to be very defiant and unruly at first, climbing about in their cage or in the beams of a house with the agility of a cat and jumping from two to three metres high. After long captivity, their agility and wild nature in the presence of humans subside; however, Tasmanian wolves never really make friends with their keeper, only get to know them inadequately and can hardly distinguish them from other people. They are also completely indifferent towards them and only become somewhat agitated at the most when faced with the meat offered to them. Apart from that, they run about in their cage for hours without paying much attention to the outside world, or lie resting and sleeping in the same spot, just as apathetic. Their clear, dark brown eyes stare blankly at the observer and completely lack the expression of a real predator's eye. The essence of every wild dog and cat shines out from their eyes, but in the eyes of the Tasmanian wolf one can read nothing but lack of spirit and narrow-mindedness. In this respect, however, the eye also becomes the interpreter of the spirit.

Not a very flattering description, is it?
In this case, the native wolf is apparently more interesting than the exotic "Zebra dog", as the thylacine is also called in Brehm's Tierleben.
Click to expand...

True, but what you must remember is that the majority of this was said through the mindset of marsupials being “less evolved” than placentals. Robert Paddle’s book goes super in depth on why that sentiment led to biases in European observers
 
Brayden Delashmutt said:
True, but what you must remember is that the majority of this was said through the mindset of marsupials being “less evolved” than placentals. Robert Paddle’s book goes super in depth on why that sentiment led to biases in European observers
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A report in 2023 suggested that marsupials may be superior to placentals: Marsupials might be the more evolved mammals. When I did my zoology degree, I did my specialist essay on marsupial evolution. I also gave a talk at work about how marsupials have advantages over placentals
 
Brayden Delashmutt said:
True, but what you must remember (...)
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I don't have to remember anything. Contemporary zeitgeist or not - the behaviour of captive thylacines mentioned above would not go well with modern zoo visitors. They would interpret both the pacing and the lounging around as signs of inadequate husbandry and animal suffering, which would impact its public popularity.
 
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