It is also intriguing that the debate starts selectively.
I don't recall anyone jumping on the PC bandwagon when Nathan Jamieson was killed working an elephant FC in Africa.
Zoo Knoxville Knoxville Zoo elephant keeper killed
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It is also intriguing that the debate starts selectively.
I don't recall anyone jumping on the PC bandwagon when Nathan Jamieson was killed working an elephant FC in Africa.
That's exactly what I was thinking and was possibly what got me so worked up about it. I believe this keeper (and know Nathan) wouldn't want this management of their entire workplace to change as a result of their deaths. It is unfortunate but the smile on nathans' face when he let me help pick up **** and he told me about Africa has always made me think I would rather go for my dreams and take the risks then die old having never tried. I believe this keeper would have the same opinion. Here for a good time, not a long time, so make the most of it.
Very well spoken Steve.
easytigger
Well-Known Member
Very well said
Now is not a time for point scoring, its a time for sympathy and solidarity
My thoughts are with her family and work friends
I think the death of a young woman is exactly the time to discuss why she died and if this tragedy could have been avoided - and most important, what can be done in the future so that no one else has to die, no more families have to go through what her family is experiencing now.
This is how i feel as well.
The zoo has already released a statement saying that all three of the elephants will now be handled under the policy of protected contact, and so yet another North American zoo abolishes free contact with elephants. I predict that eventually every AZA zoo (if not every zoo regardless of accreditation) will have protected contact in place. For better or worse that is the obvious future of elephant management in North America, and there aren't many institutions left that still use free contact.
Oh dear. There will always be deaths among keepers working with elephants or farmers working with cattle or stockmen working with horses or anybody working with large animals. It is a fact of life.
The important thing to remember is that the keeper had a choice - she chose to work FC with elephants. She could just as easily have gone to another zoo if she preferred to work PC with them.
Those of you who would deny people choices will end up with a nanny state where individual humans will not be allowed to display any initiative at all. They will not develop any interactive skills with their animals and, as a result, many animal's lives will not be enriched to the degree that they are now.
What a bland, dumbed-down, shallow little world we will end up with.
My worst animal injury came from a chiuahua (sp?). I have broken in horses and wild camels and worked in free contact with elephants in Musth yet that little yappy lapdog was the worst I've been hurt.
I have also seen an elephant rip a persons arm off and throw a minibus over. I know the risks, I've seen them firsthand but I believe the most important thing is to be happy with what you do with your life. Knoxville's keeper had a very much wanted job by many keepers. Her death should not be used to attack the job she did.
You are getting ahead of yourself a bit.
The zoo's statement actually says that they will manage all three elephants in a PC environment pending the outcome of their revue.
couldn't agree more, i was at a zoo this weekend that still use's fc and that was the main topic of the conversations i had with the keepers. its a choice, if you don't want the risk then don't do it
Good point Steve, as I just read some more news articles and you are correct that the protected contact management is not permanent. I'd actually be curious as to what percentage of zoos still have free contact, as I've noticed that the majority of American zoos have switched over to protected contact.
This may not add much to this discussion, just a curious observation I have made. Every zoo with elephants that I have been to in the western half of the U.S. uses protected contact, while many of the zoos with elephants that I have been to in the eastern half of the U.S. use free contact.
I'd like to know that too. Can someone on ZooChat, with more computer smarts than me, set up a poll?
Not a poll asking for personal preferences, but a poll seeking to find out which US zoos use which method. And for which animals. We know that some zoos use PC for their bull and FC for their cows. Are there zoos that use FC for Asian cows and PC for African cows?
If someone could set up some sort of questionnaire to ask all these questions [and any more that you may think of] we could then collate the figures and get an accurate picture.
Anyone able to set it up???
ShowMeElephants, do you have any data to start us off?
Right now it is around a 50/50 split on zoos between free and protected contact. Region does not matter. Out west you still have both Oregon institutions free as well as Six Flags, Salinas, Perris, Woodland Park (Seattle), Los Angeles (who just went protected), Denver and Albuquerque.
If you would like, I could list each institution and their form of management when time allows.
If you would like, I could list each institution and their form of management when time allows.
easytigger
Well-Known Member
Woodland Park are PC, I sat in for a training session in September
People are keen to assert the right of keepers to put themselves in harms way if they so choose but is FC actually better for the elephants? Or is it more enriching for the keepers?
I would certainly appreciate that list - thank you.
Particularly if we could find out if gender or species is a factor in deciding on the form of management to be used.