Ligers, Zonkeys and other hybrids

Ligers, Zonkeys...

The Bengalese was proven several decades ago to be a domesticated Striated Finch rather than a hybrid. However, in recent years other manikin species have been crossed in to introduce new colours as happened with the Red Siskin and canary.
 
Of course some hybrids are rather useful the Bengalese finch Lonchura striata domestica is often used to foster other finch eggs, especially if the parents lay a lot of eggs but don't always incubate them, or are rare and removing a clutch of eggs can result in another clutch.

My late granddad did precisely this with his birds :) and not just finches - I'm told his Bengalese finches would incubate pretty much everything he had.
 
Ligers, Zonkeys.....

I gave two Zebra finches of different ages to a trio of male Bengalese and they reared them, hadn't even had eggs to sit on beforehand.
 
And there was me planning to cross the Dire Wolf with the Dodo in the hope of breeding a Redneck American Creationist. That's another theory shot to hell; I have so much to learn.

It's better than crosing the dire wolf with a rhea, which would be a bit scatty.
 
I wonder what the reaction would be if it was decided to put all these animals down, personally I think I would actually support such a move as a clear signal to animals collections and the public that these hybrids are wrong - would you extend the same to more common hybrids such as a mule for example though?

I was pretty suprised to see that Colchester Zoo had a zonkey at one point that was kept on display at some point not too long ago.

As you said, I can't see any point other than the "wow/money making" factor - no coincidence that Ligers are more common/well known than the small Tigon!

The thing that gets me is that there ARE zoo's around that seem intent on breeding hybrids - often in America (of course) and take great pride in their abominations, the story of the wolphin sent shivers down my spine - "The first captive wholphin was born on May 15, 1985 where a female bottlenose dolphin named Punahele and a male false killer whale named Tanui Hahai shared a pool. The wholphin's size, color and shape are intermediate between the parent species. Named Kekaimalu, she has 66 teeth - intermediate between a bottlenose (88 teeth) and false killer whale (44 teeth).

The wholphin proved fertile when she gave birth at a very young age. Unfortunately, the calf died after a few days. However, in 1991, Kekaimalu gave birth once again, to daughter Pohaikealoha. For 2 years she cared for the calf, but did not nurse it (it was hand-reared by trainers). Pohaikealoha died at age 9.

On December 23, 2004, Kekaimalu had her third calf, daughter Kawili'Kai, sired by a male bottlenose. This calf did nurse and was very playful. Only months after birth, it was the size of a 1-year-old bottlenose dolphin.

Both remain in captivity, and are now part of the normal tour at Sea Life Park. The backstage tour must be taken to see the wholphins. Kekaimalu is featured in the main dolphin show at Sea Life Park."

You would think that breeding such a thing in the first place would create outrage, not prompt the response to keep trying to breed from the animal - especially with the events that happened with it's offspring.

It seems that the public perception with a lot of these animals is verging on positive - wonder how the same people would react if a human/chimp hybrid was produced!: Humanzee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think this is an issue that the general public has really been concerned with until fairly recently. Plus, dolphinariums tend to have a different, uh, public image. When people think about captive dolphins, they usually think of marine parks first, which are usually more about entertainment rather than education. So "novelties" like a wholphin are generally more accepted, even at places that do try to be more educational like Sea Life Park appears to be. Shoot, a lot of people still believe that white tigers are a separate species.

Anyway, I'm not a fan of zoos purposefully breeding hybrids. In addition to being bad for conservation, it's also bad for education. Breeding them and putting them on display sends a bad message. Like how a lot of people have been led to believe that white tigers are a separate species. If a zoo is breeding, say, ligers, and puts them on display, it leads people to think that ligers are naturally occurring. After all, zoos are educational and they would never mislead us! If a zoo is breeding hybrid animals for research purposes, MAYBE I can support it, but they shouldn't do it with endangered animals, and if the hybrids are put on display, the zoo should have signs and stuff to make it clear that this isn't nature.

Now, I don't want all existing hybrids and such to be euthanized. Same goes for other animals (like white tigers) that shouldn't be bred. But any zoo that has such animals on display should make it clear what the situation is. Say that, "sure, hybrids are cool and white tigers are pretty, but we should not support the breeding and here's why"...

Random! :rolleyes:

Quote from this link "Animals endangered have to be taken care of for their medicinal values. If once they are lost, they cannot be replaced. Tiger bones are used as an effective cure against some deadly diseases like cancer."

WTF? :eek:

lolwut

If tiger bones could actually cure cancer, people would create massive tiger farms to harvest bones. (and the fur could easily be sold for clothing and furniture, and I'm sure something could be done with the meat) Meaning, wild poaching for such purposes might not be an issue in such a scenario, because people could purchase them more easily than they could hunt a tiger. Also, "tiger rancher" would be the coolest job title ever. I'D TOTALLY BE ONE
 
If tiger bones could actually cure cancer, people would create massive tiger farms to harvest bones. (and the fur could easily be sold for clothing and furniture, and I'm sure something could be done with the meat) Meaning, wild poaching for such purposes might not be an issue in such a scenario, because people could purchase them more easily than they could hunt a tiger. Also, "tiger rancher" would be the coolest job title ever. I'D TOTALLY BE ONE
tiger farms do exist, in China. And they are not cool. And they do not stop poaching.
 
Ligers....

Right, here goes:
1/ As the Marsh Tern just said, Tiger farms already exist, producing lots of poorly reared Tigers that have poor quality of life.
2/ Colchester Zoo bred their three Zebroids from a Plains Zebra stallion and a black Donkey mare, when this was not politically incorrect, back in (I think) the 1970s. All three hybrids (all female) lived for many years, the last one dying within the past decade. It may well be that the parents were put together for company at a time when the zoo only had one Zebra.
3/ Producing hybrids can be regarded as perfectly acceptable provided it does not divert funds from conservation, or endanger the purity of existing stocks. When one thinks of the money that is spent worldwide on things like sport, the resources needed to have a few Tigons around amount to not a lot in comparison.
4/ White Tigers are beautiful. Unfortunately they have been inbred for commercial gain. Some zoos made a lot of money doing this. It was unfortunate that what started off as a pure Indian strain was out crossed to generic zoo Tigers and also to Siberians to 'improve' size. We now have a situation where genetically sound Whote Tigers might be recreated (and for all I know have been) by outcrossing, but will never again be pure 'Bengal'. So, at best they exist as a beautiful 'domestic' artefact, almost as artificial and irrelevant to conservation as the Ankole Cattle, Kune Kune Pigs and Ouessant Sheep that nobody seems to mind taking the place of wild species ungulates in our zoos. Maybe we should stop mutation bashing and hybrid bashing, and agree to have a few around.
5/ Where do I stand? As long as the pure species are being propagated in their natural forms, and this is given priority, I really quite like seeing the odd mutation or even hybrid. For example, a White Mandarin Duck in a flock of normals makes them look even more stunning. A flock of whites starts to look like a flock of white ducks -- much less interesting. To give a hybrid example, Mallard x Red-crested Pochard gives a duck with a purple head; quite stunningly different from any true species. This hybrid occasionally occurs in the wild, and is sterile, so doesn't contaminate anybody's gene pool.
What I don't like is when there are so many mutants around that the image of the pure species is lost; this is happening with some of the commoner (and already very beautiful) Avicultural species like Gouldian finches and Chinese Painted Quail. Sorry about the upper case 'A' back there. Spellcheck insisted on it.
 
Avicultural species like Gouldian finches and Chinese Painted Quail.

Something bad seems to have happened to Painted quail in the forty years since I kept them. The 'normal' colour seems increasingly hard to find, and the hens just lay masses of eggs without sitting them- that used not to be the case. And they often look plucked which may be just the surroundings(overcrowding) where I've seen them.

I agree a single White individual amongst a group of normals always stands out. Its one reason a white tiger with a normal tiger makes a better display than two whites kept together. Inidentally, I wish someone could import some pure Indian tigers again (colour immaterial) and then keep them pure.

Ungulates- I think one reason domestic 'smalls' like Ouessant sheep,, Kune pigs etc have replaced many ungulates is perhaps because of the 'touch value'?. Like 'Keeper for the Day', Adoptions, 'behind the scenes' tours, walk-in bird and marmoset aviaries, 'feed the Lorikeets' Penguin parades, nights and evening openings, giraffe feeding stations, naming contests etc,(phew! I can't think of any more...) 'petting' areas( always reminds me of something else :D) are an obligatory part of our modern Zoos nowadays.
 
I'm talking industrial tiger farms. Like, run by corporations.
an "industrial" tiger farm, whoever owns it, would be exactly the same. The only way to mass-produce tigers would be to keep them in little cages, remove the young at birth, grow them up as fast as possible, and slaughter them for their parts. There would be no place for natural behaviour or large enclosures because the demand would not allow it. It would be no different to "battery farming" for chickens or pigs.
 
an "industrial" tiger farm, whoever owns it, would be exactly the same. The only way to mass-produce tigers would be to keep them in little cages, remove the young at birth, grow them up as fast as possible, and slaughter them for their parts. There would be no place for natural behaviour or large enclosures because the demand would not allow it. It would be no different to "battery farming" for chickens or pigs.

True. I'm just saying that if tiger bones could cure cancer, industrial tiger farms would exist. I never said they'd be nice places.
 
Has anyone mentioned a hybrid between a White Tiger and a regular?
I saw one at Busch Gardens Tampa, and I believe there is one at the Buffalo Zoo
 
Has anyone mentioned a hybrid between a White Tiger and a regular?
I saw one at Busch Gardens Tampa, and I believe there is one at the Buffalo Zoo

All white tigers (except some in India) are hybrids between Bengal and Amur tigers (and possibly even other subspecies). The white tiger gene was originally found in Bengal Tigers, but they were then crossed with Amurs to make bigger animals.
 
Ligers, Zonkeys...

It may be what is referred to is a 'Golden Tabby' Tiger, which is a kind of intermediate form. Not sure how it was originally produced, as usually white x normal gives all normals, unless both are carrying the white gene, when you get some whites as well.
 
It may be what is referred to is a 'Golden Tabby' Tiger, which is a kind of intermediate form. Not sure how it was originally produced, as usually white x normal gives all normals, unless both are carrying the white gene, when you get some whites as well.

I think it was in fact produced from White x Normal, as a sort of later 'by-product'. IMO its a very unnattractive form. There is also a virtually pure white stripeless version of the normal 'White' tiger also.
 
I think it was in fact produced from White x Normal, as a sort of later 'by-product'. IMO its a very unnattractive form. There is also a virtually pure white stripeless version of the normal 'White' tiger also.

Pertinax is this one of the varieties they used to have at Longleat?( I only ever saw it on the TV show animals park or one of it's re editing spin offs) but it was of very mixed colouring, with lots of white.
 
Yeah I'm talking about the Golden Tiger FBBird mentioned I am going to check out the stripeless white tiger that sounds cool.
 
Ligers...

For many years Longleat had a Golden Tabby male with a White and a Normal female.
 
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