ZSL London Zoo London Developments

On a different note, what are the changes being made to the bird house for? I heard they were introducing sunbirds/ hummingbirds, is this true?
 
Someone on this forum told me the very same thing and I read on wikipedia that it was going to be a rainforest theme. When I saw it in July they seemed to be putting on a new glass roof. Should be good!
 
Writhedhornbill said:
Yes, but I thought Chester was known for it's many cubs, that now are at most zoos that keep the species. What success did London have? i.e amounts of cubs
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The Original founders of the Asian Lion zoo population were(I believe) two pairs imported to London and another one or two pairs to Helsinki.

I think you'll find Chester were among the first round of zoos to receive cubs from the early breedings- like others they then bred and distributed cubs to other zoos. Vurtually all zoos keeping them have produced cubs at some stage. I imagine many are on contraceptive implants nowadays.
 
Does any of you have or know of a site that list the lineage of asiatic lions? especially UK born lions.
 
I have some info on the origins of the original pairs of UK Asian lions;

London; received 2 pairs Dec 1990.
of which one pair sent to Chester March 1994.
(original male died 1995. replaced with 1.0 from HElsinki).

Helsinki. 1.2 received Dec. 1992.

Chester. received one w/c pair from London (1994)

Cotswold. male born Chester
female born(?) Helsinki.

Bristol. Male born Chester
Female born(?) Helsinki

Dudley. male born London
female from Helsinki

Paignton. male from London
female from Helsinki.

Twycross. male from London(replaced later with 1.0 from(?) Rome)
female from Zurich

Edinburgh. (more recent than my data)

These were the original UK pairings up to 1999. Plenty has happened since then, e.g. I know Paignton's pair are not the original ones now (female died, male sent away).
 
Is the male lion at bristol still there, as the zoo uk programme talk about him from time to time about him not liking the keeper, I believe his name is Chandra or along the lines of chester previous female.

Thanks for the Info, I hope chesters Lions breed again as the last litter was born in 2004? (that can't be right!)
 
as an aussie who lived around the corner from london zoo for a year ill add an asutraliana slant to this discussion. first up, one of the things most people visiting london zoo bitch about and get disappointed by is the absence of mega-fauna (presumably just keeping giraffes, sloth bears, p hippos, gorillas, chimps, lions and tigers doesnt cut it). people, particularly older visitors still demand elephant, rhino, hippo and a uniquely london expectation...wolves. whilst theyre the first to complain about cramped spaces for the animals, people still do expect to see a smattering of charismatic mega-fauna, and if ZSL is to continue on with its amzing portfolio of conservation work, then it will always be a matter of considering this expectation in order to get the plebs in and pay the bills.
looking at the range of innovative new exhibits london has unleashed lately, think clore, komodo, penguins, meerkats, otters, africa, gorilla kingdom, meet the monkeys, the farm, BUGS, zooworld, the butterflies, london could probaly get away with losing another big cat species, and not disappoint people.
but, from a husbabdry perspective there really is no need. in both mogo zoo (nsw south coast) and taronga zoo lions and tigers live literally side by side and yet breed very succesfully. in my opinion bot lions and tigers should stay....even the redistribution of the amur leopards was disappointing. however, it is true that the cat terraces are looking tired, but i believe improving them would not have to be expensive.
call it cats of asia....brng back the leopards, keep the lions and tigers. spruce up the daggy walls with a fresh render and max out the plantings and add in heaps of cultural theming stuff. big cats have such an important cultural significance, and their conservation is still linked to this traditional reverence that it would be stupid not to include this. a new visitor walkway, covered, with ranger stations throughout would be cool.
the sumatran tiger exhibit was renovated in 2005, but it needs a new roof i think. so too the amur leopard enclosure. but structurally i dont really think the exhibits are that bad, or that small.
however, if a big cat species ha dto go id nominate the asian lions to leave, even though the sound of a lion roaring which can be heard from primrose hill is cool.
the tigers would do well in the current lion exhibit, with clouded leopards replacing the tigers. id whack fishing cats in the small exhibits by the existing lion enclosure, whilst keeping the biggest one empty for the tigers too. and id incorporate primate exhibits of gibbons and langurs.
its disappointing that london has not had much luck with its sumatrans. an atttempt in 2005 at AI obviously was unsuccesful, although i believe due to their bloodlines breeding both animals is an EEP priority
 
taun said:
Is the male lion at bristol still there, as the zoo uk programme talk about him from time to time about him not liking the keeper, I believe his name is Chandra or along the lines of chester previous female.

(that can't be right!)
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Yep, so far as I know, Bristol still have their original pair- Chandra and Moti.
Its interesting that he seemed to be 'hateful' toward the keeper- if you ever watched the Paigton 'Zookeeper' series, their original male ' Midas' seemed to show exactly the same grumpy behaviour!

The Paignton female died when their last litter of cubs were partly grown. I think they sent 'Midas' away to Europe somewhere (and the male cub) and have set up a new pair using the daughter and a new male.

Didn't one (or both) of Chester's original pair die not that long ago? I don't know what they have now...
I think Cotswold still have their original pair, I don't know about Dudley. Twycross's pair (rather unusually for this species) didn't breed until they replaced the male with a new one- since then they have had at least two litters.
There must be loads in Europe too nowadays if they have bred at the same rate as the UK ones have.
 
Chester original female died two years ago, they currently have Asoka(A male cub from the original pair) and Asha (from rome zoo who was born at paignton)
 
glyn said:
the sumatran tiger exhibit was renovated in 2005, but it needs a new roof i think. so too the amur leopard enclosure. but structurally i dont really think the exhibits are that bad, or that small.
however, if a big cat species ha dto go id nominate the asian lions to leave, even though the sound of a lion roaring which can be heard from primrose hill is cool.
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Glyn
I think the Tiger enclosure is actually the better of the two big exhibits, more imaginative and attractive. Nor, I agree, is it too small. I think the Lion enclosure is the one that needs more improvement. The big water moat is a waste of space and very 'green' with algae. Perhaps if they fill it in as a sandy/scrub 'Gir Forest lookalike' area and have a glass viewing wall- as they have done on the Cotton Terraces,that will update it nicely. I think adding small cat species in the smaller enclosures is perhaps a waste of time as they are so invisible for much of the time. Clouded leopards are perhaps the worst offenders of all in that respect. Also, maybe they would suffer a lot of stress in such proximity to Big Cats? I know leopards naturally prefer to avoid Tigers or Lions whenever possible in the wild- even altering their habits somewhat.

I think you can hear Lions roaring up to 5(or is it 7?) miles distance... but probably not over the London traffic .;)
 
taun said:
Chester original female died two years ago, they currently have Asoka(A male cub from the original pair) and Asha (from rome zoo who was born at paignton)
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'Asha' must have been from one of the earlier Paignton litters, an older sister of the current Paignton female?
 
grantsmb said:
Glyn
...Nor, I agree, is it too small....
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I'm surprised both you and Glyn say that. I don't think they're necessarily too small, they're certainly acceptable, but I wouldn't say they were ideal in terms of size. I think they seem a little bigger than they really are because of the design; the way that they can be viewed from a number of viewpoints but never all at once. The lion enclosure especially, when you look at properly, you see isn't as big as it appears.

I can see why people would suggest keeping both in the same area, but I've never been one to make compromise. Surely when making a new exhibit they should try to do the very best they can for the animals' sake. I suppose its always gonna come down to space allowance vs. keeping as many popular species as possible.
 
The Tiger enclosure I don't feel is too small- at least for a pair of Tigers which is all it normally houses.

The Lion enclosure I agree could do with being larger- the very wide moat is just so much wasted space- fill it in and it would give double the area almost- and closer viewing for the public along a much larger perimeter...
 
The exhibits are, in many ways, attractive and functional enough, but there is obviously something not right in the setup for Sumatran Tigers, given the breeding record, and better theming or a new roof isn't really going to solve this. I would not be surprised if AI, if successful, resulted in another hand-reared cub. This is an animal that has been very successfully bred at several other UK zoos, so why the expense of AI when the two tigers are in a very busy part of the zoo in an enclosure that prevents them having high vantage points, or much privacy? Surely you would change their environment first? Unless London has a great deal invested in maintaining them without the planning permission or space to relocate them elsewhere on the site.
It would be interesting to know if any samples have been taken from the cats to measure the levels of various stress-related chemicals.
The lions have found their enclosure comfortable enough to produce cubs (some even mother-reared), and so logically it would be wise to expand on this exhibit. The Asiatic lions have important conservation value, are of historic significance to the work of ZSL and their story could be told with other species from the region. If the whole area was converted into an immersion exhibit for a pride of lions I think the results would be stunning. I just feel of all the taxonomic groups, cats are really one that should not be exhibited in close proximity to eachother.

And yes I agree the moat in the lion exhibit is utterly pointless...
 
well yeah. Seeing that they could onky house something of around 2-5 lions. I Think both Big Cats shoud remain and maybe brig back smaller cat species such as Fishing Cats, Leopard Cats and Clouded Leopards. That does leave the poblem of what to do with the Servals though, they only arrived a few years back so are probably staying around.
 
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