ZSL London Zoo London Zoo discussion thread

[DCzootripper]

As much as it sounds nice, they need more overnight accommodation?

I personally think they should provide more Accommodation, in form of Luxury lodges, but these would be more like bungalows, sleeping up to 5 people, and would be located next to animal adventure and opposite the Blackburn pavilion. These would not house the animal tours, but instead would focus on relaxation, maybe even offering that swimming pool conversion concept for the penguin pool suggested by Mugcake.

 

[FBBird]

I imagine there’s some major hurdles regarding its use as a play area, primarily the lack of railings and the two spiralling ramps.

I don’t think there’s any way to safely add railings to the descending entry ramp without implanting it directly into the structure (unless a new structure is built directly next to it to stabilise the railing), and the spiral ramps are a major hazard. They’re likely to be quite slippery, they’re only designed to take the weight of penguins, and adding railings is not as viable as it would be for the first ramp.

Same issues would probably exist if it was used for climbing. Even with significant reinforcement (which would make the pool unusable), I don’t think there’d be any way of safely utilising them.

I could maybe see it being used as an after-hours pool area for people staying at the lodges, but there would need to be a lifeguard on duty to make sure people don’t try to climb up the spiral ramps (I wouldn’t give adults the benefit of the doubt in that regard either, there’s plenty of people who would try to do so despite the hazards).

I do think the most viable use (and one I haven’t seen attempted yet) would be your suggestion of it housing birds again. I think the best use would be for waterfowl, maybe even something like black swans if they can build a temporary housing next to the pool to accommodate them.

Alternatively (and perhaps controversially), they could demolish Three Island Pond to open up more space within the zoo, and move the flamingos and pelicans to the pool. It would probably be a downgrade for them though, and I can’t imagine people would be too happy about it.

I’m not entirely sure why the zoo hasn’t tried housing other birds there either way, but preserving it as a water structure is admirable (although it could do with some more impressive fountains in future, if they get the budget for it). I know they experimented with it as an enclosure for Chinese Alligators, but maybe that was just too big a change too fast?

There is absolutely no way the Lubetkin Penguin Pool could be made suitable for pelicans or flamingos. It’s not big enough and the surfaces are unsuitable for their feet as they were for penguins. Also the Three Island Pond is the oldest installation in the Zoo.

 

[polarbear]

There is absolutely no way the Lubetkin Penguin Pool could be made suitable for pelicans or flamingos. It’s not big enough and the surfaces are unsuitable for their feet as they were for penguins. Also the Three Island Pond is the oldest installation in the Zoo.

Nor a swimming pool!

 

[FBBird]

Nor a swimming pool!

Not that either! I’d be inclined to put Koi in there and net it over to keep the herons & gulls out

 

[cerperal]

It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but the penguin pool serves its best purpose as a piece of history, not as an exhibit. Theoretically you could convert it back into a fairly reasonable exhibit for something or other, but it certainly would have to compromise and ultimately leaving it in the state it was (or comparable to) when it held penguins and using it for events like Zoo Nights is to me at least the best way to make the most of it. Not many other zoos can boast to have what is essentially a huge piece of abstract art sat in the middle of them, and visitors seem to like it as-is anyway. Although sticking some koi in it does sound like a good idea to me too

I do think more accommodation is probably going to happen at some point, given how popular the lion lodges are. I'm not sure where they'd go but certainly it would be a good move for the zoo

I do find it funny in hindsight how overly negative this thread was - I'd quite forgotten how rather grumbly everyone was over the then state of the zoo, and it's amusing to read genuine beliefs that London needs to bring back its large animals, and until then it is somewhat a waste. I feel rather vindicated in my previous defence of it - in just 2 years, London has in my opinion done an incredible amount to prove that the approach ZSL is going for is one that results in success.

 

[Typhlonectes]

I have found this image you might be interested in

I too agree, they chose to keep porcupines and Chinese alligators, but didn't think to add a few ducks. ZSL moves in mysterious ways.

Wow. That is one crazy looking exhibit. Thanks

 

[FBBird]

It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but the penguin pool serves its best purpose as a piece of history, not as an exhibit. Theoretically you could convert it back into a fairly reasonable exhibit for something or other, but it certainly would have to compromise and ultimately leaving it in the state it was (or comparable to) when it held penguins and using it for events like Zoo Nights is to me at least the best way to make the most of it. Not many other zoos can boast to have what is essentially a huge piece of abstract art sat in the middle of them, and visitors seem to like it as-is anyway. Although sticking some koi in it does sound like a good idea to me too

I do think more accommodation is probably going to happen at some point, given how popular the lion lodges are. I'm not sure where they'd go but certainly it would be a good move for the zoo

I do find it funny in hindsight how overly negative this thread was - I'd quite forgotten how rather grumbly everyone was over the then state of the zoo, and it's amusing to read genuine beliefs that London needs to bring back its large animals, and until then it is somewhat a waste. I feel rather vindicated in my previous defence of it - in just 2 years, London has in my opinion done an incredible amount to prove that the approach ZSL is going for is one that results in success.

I was there on Saturday and was very impressed with everything, from the increasing depth and quality of the bird collection to the crowds enjoying themselves, to the quality of merchandising in the shop. Zoo is doing well and has a great feel to it

 

[Mugcake]

If anyone has any knowledge they can share about Chinese Alligators being housed here I would be very interested to hear

In addition to the image shared by @DCzootripper there’s another one on ZooChat (from the other side of the pool), also posted by @Newzooboy and found here:

Newzooboy might also be able to tell you more about it from their visit, but I can’t guarantee that given how long ago it was :/

There’s also an article by The Guardian that negatively talks about the penguins leaving (and alligators being introduced), but it’s quite heavily biased so I can’t say it’s the most fair assessment of it either.

Unfortunately though I haven’t been able to find any actual photos of the alligators, nor any video or news reports on their arrival. It’s possible it’s out there on YouTube right now, it would just be a matter of finding it

 

[NMM]

It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but the penguin pool serves its best purpose as a piece of history, not as an exhibit. Theoretically you could convert it back into a fairly reasonable exhibit for something or other, but it certainly would have to compromise and ultimately leaving it in the state it was (or comparable to) when it held penguins and using it for events like Zoo Nights is to me at least the best way to make the most of it. Not many other zoos can boast to have what is essentially a huge piece of abstract art sat in the middle of them, and visitors seem to like it as-is anyway. Although sticking some koi in it does sound like a good idea to me too

I do think more accommodation is probably going to happen at some point, given how popular the lion lodges are. I'm not sure where they'd go but certainly it would be a good move for the zoo

I do find it funny in hindsight how overly negative this thread was - I'd quite forgotten how rather grumbly everyone was over the then state of the zoo, and it's amusing to read genuine beliefs that London needs to bring back its large animals, and until then it is somewhat a waste. I feel rather vindicated in my previous defence of it - in just 2 years, London has in my opinion done an incredible amount to prove that the approach ZSL is going for is one that results in success.

To an extent I agree with the principal that old exhibits can serve as a monument to history if they are well chosen and presented accordingly. That can work in large zoos that have a lot of history.

However, for somewhere for London where space is such a premium it is the wrong thing for the zoo. I do agree that ZSL have done some fantastic things in recent years, but the number of historic buildings that have to be worked around, in what to be realistic, is not a large zoo, does hamper them too much in my opinion.

 

[cerperal]

To an extent I agree with the principal that hold exhibits can serve as a monument to history if they are well chosen and presented accordingly. That can work in large zoos that have a lot of history.

However, for somewhere for London where space is such a premium it is the wrong thing for the zoo. I do agree that ZSL have done some fantastic things in recent years, but the number of historic buildings that have to be worked around, in what to be realistic, is not a large zoo, does hamper them too much in my opinion.

I largely agree, I think I just specifically excuse the penguin pool from that just on how charismatic and famous it is as a piece of history and how, in my opinion at least, it would be impossible to provide a sufficient exhibit with it nowadays. But I certainly feel that way about much of the rest of the zoo - one of London's greatest strengths is of course its history, but as many of us have repeated far too many times on here sections such as the Mappins are massively holding back huge sections of a rather small zoo. Some of the rather questionable choices made in the past 10-15 years - the loss of the giant anteater exhibit to be turned into entirely dead space sticks out the most to me, as well as the North Bank - did a lot to further reduce the used space of the zoo, but equally I do think they've done a very good job of squeezing a lot of new developments and interesting species into far less space than they have any right to manage. When they are actually allowed to work their magic, the planners at London are to me second to none.

That said - the new developments coming in the next few months I've heard whispers of are very exciting, but I haven't got a clue how they're going to fit them all in. I'm hoping that it will finally mean utilising some of that unused space, potentially even the North Bank - but I can't share any more publically, nor do I have much more to share!

As an aside, I fell down a bit of a rabbit hole of old ZSL threads on here earlier today and it's genuinely lovely to read how in all honestly they completely beat the odds over the past few years, as well as people's expectations. I'd entirely forgotten that ZSL had at least a £5 million deficit in 2019, followed of course by the pandemic, and in 5 rather short years they have a net profit of several million on top of several more in "savings". I think public opinion has also done a bit of a U-turn as well, as though the zoo has always been fairly well received there was a point not too long ago where complaints of tired, empty or generally dull exhibits were becoming more common. They seem to have all but disappeared, and I think a few of the "gambles" ZSL have taken - Monkey Valley, the reduced-sized reptile house, moving the tortoises etc - have paid off and then some in the eyes of both visitors and fanatics

 

[oflory]

It might be an unpopular opinion on here, but the penguin pool serves its best purpose as a piece of history, not as an exhibit. Theoretically you could convert it back into a fairly reasonable exhibit for something or other, but it certainly would have to compromise and ultimately leaving it in the state it was (or comparable to) when it held penguins and using it for events like Zoo Nights is to me at least the best way to make the most of it. Not many other zoos can boast to have what is essentially a huge piece of abstract art sat in the middle of them, and visitors seem to like it as-is anyway. Although sticking some koi in it does sound like a good idea to me too

Thinking about the penguin pool this evening, it occurs to me that it would be a really excellent European herp exhibit - like the outdoor ones at places like Schonbrunn, Prague or Stuttgart.

 

[Mugcake]

I largely agree, I think I just specifically excuse the penguin pool from that just on how charismatic and famous it is as a piece of history and how, in my opinion at least, it would be impossible to provide a sufficient exhibit with it nowadays. But I certainly feel that way about much of the rest of the zoo - one of London's greatest strengths is of course its history, but as many of us have repeated far too many times on here sections such as the Mappins are massively holding back huge sections of a rather small zoo. Some of the rather questionable choices made in the past 10-15 years - the loss of the giant anteater exhibit to be turned into entirely dead space sticks out the most to me, as well as the North Bank - did a lot to further reduce the used space of the zoo, but equally I do think they've done a very good job of squeezing a lot of new developments and interesting species into far less space than they have any right to manage. When they are actually allowed to work their magic, the planners at London are to me second to none.

That said - the new developments coming in the next few months I've heard whispers of are very exciting, but I haven't got a clue how they're going to fit them all in. I'm hoping that it will finally mean utilising some of that unused space, potentially even the North Bank - but I can't share any more publically, nor do I have much more to share!

As an aside, I fell down a bit of a rabbit hole of old ZSL threads on here earlier today and it's genuinely lovely to read how in all honestly they completely beat the odds over the past few years, as well as people's expectations. I'd entirely forgotten that ZSL had at least a £5 million deficit in 2019, followed of course by the pandemic, and in 5 rather short years they have a net profit of several million on top of several more in "savings". I think public opinion has also done a bit of a U-turn as well, as though the zoo has always been fairly well received there was a point not too long ago where complaints of tired, empty or generally dull exhibits were becoming more common. They seem to have all but disappeared, and I think a few of the "gambles" ZSL have taken - Monkey Valley, the reduced-sized reptile house, moving the tortoises etc - have paid off and then some in the eyes of both visitors and fanatics

You definitely have some great takes on things, and I agree that the zoo is doing a lot better in 2025 than it was during and prior to the pandemic

I think when it comes to the Penguin Pool, the big issue is that it’s something meant to draw attention. It’s in a prominent place with a large amount of viewpoints, but it’s set up like a sports arena without any athletes :/

I do feel like, even if they don’t use it for animals, there are ways they could make it feel active again. Maybe attaching some moving lights and added fountains in the pool, so it’s possible for it to do water shows during Zoo Nights (or even shows during the day).

If the pool was drained, it could also - in theory - be used for the animal demonstrations normally taking place on the lawn. If some fake grass or other soft cladding was placed down it’d help make it suitable for walking on, and it’s easily visible from outside, so could allow for a crowd to view without the animal feeling surrounded.

Either way, I do think that it only partly works as a piece of architecture alone. It’s not got an awful lot there to hold people, except for those who are already interested in its history, and that’s the main reason it tends to come up in conversations about what the zoo could change in future.

Also, interested to hear talk of new developments. As far as I knew, all we had on the horizon was the Gorilla Kingdom expansion, so I’m curious what else could come about soon

 

[Mugcake]

They’re likely to be quite slippery, they’re only designed to take the weight of penguins, and adding railings is not as viable as it would be for the first ramp.

I have to correct at least one thing here, which is that those central spiralling ramps are capable of taking the weight of an adult human. Found a video of the penguins being fed from 1998, and it shows the keeper walking and standing on one of them:

It doesn’t exactly solve the health and safety issues, but it’s one thing I have to correct myself on all the same. It does prove at least that anything between the weight of a human and a penguin could walk on them, although I can’t really think of anything other than waterbirds which would really be able to utilise that kind of architecture.

If they went the same route they did with the alligators, and added dirt and other things to soften the ground, it wouldn’t necessarily be too unsuitable for capybaras (which prefer shallower swampy habitats to deep diving areas I believe?). That being said, they’d need to obstruct the ramps up beyond the halfway point at least, because I don’t think capybaras could safely perch on them (aka they don’t climb up rocky ledges like penguins).

And I’m not advocating for that as a use either way, because there’s no way they can fit into the penguin dens, and they’re already due to be housed in the old Tortoise House anyway.

 

[Jambo]

If they went the same route they did with the alligators, and added dirt and other things to soften the ground, it wouldn’t necessarily be too unsuitable for capybaras (which prefer shallower swampy habitats to deep diving areas I believe?). That being said, they’d need to obstruct the ramps up beyond the halfway point at least, because I don’t think capybaras could safely perch on them (aka they don’t climb up rocky ledges like penguins).

It's a nice idea on paper, but realistically the enclosure's far too small for Capybara, who need a decent amount of land space too. The only species that I could see being suitable for the exhibit is a pair of Asian Short Clawed Otters - they would certainly make use of the ramps.

 

[Mugcake]

It's a nice idea on paper, but realistically the enclosure's far too small for Capybara, who need a decent amount of land space too. The only species that I could see being suitable for the exhibit is a pair of Asian Short Clawed Otters - they would certainly make use of the ramps.

Otters is a good shout too, but as they’re habitually divers and like to frequent rivers, it’s probably not going to be as suitable for them either :T

In terms of space though, isn’t the Penguin Pool larger than the place they’re moving the Capybaras to? The old Tortoise House does have indoor heating and a nice pool of its own (so they’re definitely better suited there all the same), but if memory serves it’s only the size of an average garden?

 

[Jambo]

Otters is a good shout too, but as they’re habitually divers and like to frequent rivers, it’s probably not going to be as suitable for them either :T

In terms of space though, isn’t the Penguin Pool larger than the place they’re moving the Capybaras to? The old Tortoise House does have indoor heating and a nice pool of its own (so they’re definitely better suited there all the same), but if memory serves it’s only the size of an average garden?

I've seen a lot of zoos with pools for their Short Clawed Otters that are the same depth (if not shallower) as London's. So it's do-able imo.

With the Capybaras, it's more about the amount of land space available. They're a partially aquatic species, but spend most of their time on land. The Penguin pool in question has limited land space, and when you take the slides out of the equation too, it's even less. The old Tortoise House will be able to provide the sufficient land space.

 

[NMM]

Otters sound like the best option if using it for animals. I still don't think it would make a great otter exhibit, but it is probably the best it could be.

The other option I can think if is if by adding some raised access, could it be incorporated as a pool in a larger exhibit?

 

[Mugcake]

The other option I can think if is if by adding some raised access, could it be incorporated as a pool in a larger exhibit?

I don’t reckon so, unfortunately the only point of access is via the keeper door leading onto a large ramp. Incorporating that into a larger enclosure would only work for things that could safely travel down that ramp, and even if something like a capybara did it’d be a bit of a risky way to traverse down to the water (they’re really not built for walking on hard surfaces, and soft ones would be too slippery).

That’s why I think that, bar keeping animals inside, it would make more sense as either a pool for Adult-Only Zoo Nights (or lodge guests), or as an amphitheatre where visitors watch animal demonstrations from outside, which the structure is already partly designed for.

Even the water show idea would be viable if they can get the plumbing and lights in without affecting the listed status. Or even just taking off the “Penguin Pool” signage to not confuse unfamiliar guests

 

[Rajang21]

taking off the “Penguin Pool” signage to not confuse unfamiliar guests

Presumably that's one of the listed features?

 

[DCzootripper]

I personally think they should provide more Accommodation, in form of Luxury lodges, but these would be more like bungalows, sleeping up to 5 people, and would be located next to animal adventure and opposite the Blackburn pavilion. These would not house the animal tours, but instead would focus on relaxation, maybe even offering that swimming pool conversion concept for the penguin pool suggested by Mugcake.

Of course I would never actually suggest they would do this, this is purely speculative, although I do think that my idea of the better lodges still stands