He does live solitary at present. I think you will find the move is intended for both. If not why bother to move Kesho away from ZSL as he is fine there apart from not being able to breed.
Lowland gorillas in Europe 2012
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He does live solitary at present. I think you will find the move is intended for both. If not why bother to move Kesho away from ZSL as he is fine there apart from not being able to breed.
Good point hopefully Kumbuka breeds as his bloodline is not represented very well with only him and Nasibu (his half brother) suriving offspring from there father and he is also the only child from his Mother so it will be fantastic if he breeds.
GB
GB
Yes, Keke was wildcaught and has only the two surviving offspring and no grandchildren as yet. So Kumbuka is genetically important on his father's side.
If he goes to London he will also be living with his grandmother(Zaire).
My main reservation is that Kumbuka has a very similar background to the male Awali who was also at Paignton- he completely failed to breed in Barcelona(too humanised) and has now joined a bachelor group in Amneville, France.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
No intention of trying to get Zaire breeding again, it would seem. I still feel that London are making it up as they go along with their gorillas. Hope I'm wrong.
Me too. Kumbuka is a risk- I suspect its partly because of his 'singleton' situation at Paignton that he's been chosen or 'recommended' as they say plus unrepresentedness on the father's side.
They can now discount Zaire completely by saying she's too old and his grandmother as well.
AFAWK he is destined for London. But though he's a good 'looker' I think he's a risky choice for any group, given his background.
I've heard nothing recently.
Bitono, Jah and Popa all from Kijo's group, Bitanu(Barney) from Bitam's group and Otana from Kouillou's group. These 5 males might go as a Bachelor group to Rhenen Zoo in Holland. Shasha female born in Kijo's group but currently lives in Bitam's group might be going to Munster Zoo and Yene female born in Djala's group at Port Lympne might be going to Rostock Zoo.
Probably in a couple of years when Kiju (Kijo X Dihi) is abit older and bigger they will introduce a new male to kijo's group and when the old Ladies Mouila 52 years Baby Doll 51 years and Juju 50 years unfortunately Pass Away they will probably use that enclosure to hold some young males from the groups at howletts until they find permanent homes for them and then will probably start up another breeding group.
I believe Damian Aspinall wants to keep Ebeki (Kifu X Tebe) born 2003 young male, so i think it would be a good idea to build a new or 2 new gorilla enclosures but i dont think they have the space to
GB
I believe Damian Aspinall wants to keep Ebeki (Kifu X Tebe) born 2003 young male, so i think it would be a good idea to build a new or 2 new gorilla enclosures but i dont think they have the space to
If they could move on one of the other male groups at Port Lympne e.g. the younger 'Pavilion' group, they could set up another breeding group in their place. I wonder why this group of males aren't going to Rhenen instead of the adult ones, as it sounds unlikely the adult males will ever leave now if they are having to be seperated from each other more and more. This would create problems for Rhenen Zoo.
There is still time for the younger two Kush and Djimu to be sent of as breeding males as both are only 19 but Ambam and Timbou are 22 and Mataki is 24 this october so looks like these 3 will spend the rest of their days at PL but i hope at least Djimu will become a breeding male as He is the only male descendant left of Djoum's genes. AFAIK the younger males Kangu Kebu Kouyou and Fubu are staying at PL for the near future but whether any of them become breeding males we will see and Ujiji might move to Korea to be paired up with a female so this gives a little bit of space in the tower enclosure for 1 or 2 males.
GB
GB
Death of Mumbah, ex Howletts in US.
He hasn't been a European Gorilla for many years but the ex-Howletts male Mumbah, who was sent to Columbus Zoo in the USA, has died there aged 47. Mumbah arrived at Howletts as a small baby and when I first saw him he was the youngest in their early group, and stayed as the 'baby' for sometime before other youngsters such as Bitam, Etoumbi, Founa, Mushie and Djoum arrived. He was later moved to Columbus as an adult male as he was 'surplus' at Howletts who had several other males. I remember seeing him advertised in the Inter Zoo News as a 'breeding male' though I had my doubts even then.
Though a 'quiet ' male he is supposed(?) to have sired one infant at Howletts- but he certainly never did at Columbus and he later acted there as the patriarch of the 'surrogacy' group. That indicates a very laid back/tolerant attitude to baby Gorillas not his own offspring.
He hasn't been a European Gorilla for many years but the ex-Howletts male Mumbah, who was sent to Columbus Zoo in the USA, has died there aged 47. Mumbah arrived at Howletts as a small baby and when I first saw him he was the youngest in their early group, and stayed as the 'baby' for sometime before other youngsters such as Bitam, Etoumbi, Founa, Mushie and Djoum arrived. He was later moved to Columbus as an adult male as he was 'surplus' at Howletts who had several other males. I remember seeing him advertised in the Inter Zoo News as a 'breeding male' though I had my doubts even then.
Though a 'quiet ' male he is supposed(?) to have sired one infant at Howletts- but he certainly never did at Columbus and he later acted there as the patriarch of the 'surrogacy' group. That indicates a very laid back/tolerant attitude to baby Gorillas not his own offspring.
Very sad news, at least he gets to be reunited with John Aspinall again.
If he never sired any offsrping at Columbus and was supposed to have sired Shumba, then as Mushie has another daughter Juma with Djoum this could possibly mean that Djoum was actually the father of Shumba ??. Doubt we will ever find out though
GB
Lets stay realistic, Kumbuka is not just a risk, it`s almost certain that he will never breed. Neither in London nor elsewhere. The people in London must have lost their mind that they are willing to try with him after having the great luck to be able to place Kesho in Longleat so soon!! If you look at what happened in otehr zoos, it may well take years before they can move Kumbuka out (after the 2 or 3 years they`ll need before finally admitting that he will never breed...). That means no progress towards a gorilla family for the next 5 years or so in London - just wonderful
If you look at what happened in otehr zoos, it may well take years before they can move Kumbuka out (after the 2 or 3 years they`ll need before finally admitting that he will never breed...). That means no progress towards a gorilla family for the next 5 years or so in London - just wonderful
I thought you might be surprised at this move.
IMO when he does arrive there, he will either start mating-firstly with Mjuku-very soon after introduction, or he will not respond to the females at all- in which case nothing will change however long they keep him. I think this decision may have been reached by EEP because of his genetic standing and his solitary status where he is now, so they are turning a blind eye to his background and potential ability, which is odd as they usually only recommend mother-raised males for breeding groups nowadays. Maybe they think it is worth the attempt. But it will be an expensive waste of time and effort if it fails.
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Kumbuka has two advantages as a choice - his genetic value and his availability within UK quarantine regulations. The chance of success may not be high, but it is not zero either. His move will improve the situation at Paignton, where the other males will have more space, and improve the chances of London playing a significant part in the breeding programme. I hope it works out.
Alan
His chance may not be zero, but not THAT much more. I want it to work too, but it won`t. His genes may be good, but they are of no use since he has never seen an adult female in his life (handraised and then put in an all-male-group). Ivo doesn`t breed, Mambie doesn`t breed, Awali didin`t breed, Jitu didn`t breed, Boulas didn`t breed. And these are just the current examples...
I think Awali is the closest parallel out of all of these regarding background, and he certainly didn't work out at Barcelona.
I think all of us want this to succeed but have our doubts in varying degrees.
Of course Kumbuka being a fine-looking male, he will make an excellent display at ZSL but that's not really the main point of him going there. But as GL says, he is already in the UK and his departure will ease the situation at Paignton and my guess is ZSL/EEP's attitude is- 'its worth a try'. Still doesn't seem like the wisest choice to me though.
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