Melbourne Zoo Melbourne Zoo visits...
- Thread starter patrick
- Start date
- Status
26/2/2008
okay - so yesterday i just finished a 48hr stint drawing to make a deadline and what better way that to calm my brain down than a leisurely stroll at my favorite place in the world......
stuff's been improving.
the path at the entrance to the gorilla rainforest has been reconfigured, so as to not have to backtrack to the first viewing area (those who have been will know what i'm talking about). the path now leads direct to the first overlook, not the glass area and the gardens in that area were being cleared to allow a larger view and a giant log has been placed into the garden as a seat, so you can now sit and watch the apes. a good improvement. it always bothered me the way you had to backtrack (although it meant you often had this area to yourself!).
mandrill exhibit is looking barren. needs some attention from the gardeners.
treeshrews (or rats, as everyone liked to call them) were on display in the tree-top apes and monkeys exhibit. so small compared the the species i saw in borneo.
the WC gibbon female is still the star of the exhibit and in love with watching visitors. she spends all her time with her face pressed against teh glass. (these gibbons are the sweetest animals at the zoo i think). the colobus family were still asleep, the lion-tailed macaque male is still obsessed with, ahem, "touching himself" .....
to trail of the elephants , which has had a whole bunch of new "asian style" signage thrown up everywhere (which admittedly is very true to the signs i see in asia). this includes "no poaching" signs in the tiger exhibit (yes "in" the exhibit), and the removal of all bird plaques from the aviaries and new "egg smugglers" signs featuring the birds and their eggs nailed to trees in the aviaries. they are okay, and like i said very authentic. but authentic asian signage is synonymous with "tacky"... but its more educational, i'll give em that...(thoug i could have done without the fancy new "tiger bridge" sign at the tigers).
more otters a back in the otter exhibit. binturongs gone. (good)
the tiger exhibit had also had some modifications, fencing off a section of garden so that keepers could stand here and feed the tigers milk through the fence and do talks. this is a good addition as we all know keeper talks that get the animals active are the way to go...
unfortunately like any add-on at a zoo, the fence was in a different style to everything else (not bamboo) and the same went for a whole bunch of additions at the elephants.........
when i got to the elephants i was once again impressed with how great the gardens are looking. even the bangalow palms (who usually frizzle in melbourne summers) where lush and green, the bamboo's and bananas were tall and transplanted trees were established and taking off...
the big difference here was that the village paddock had a new enormous shade sail installed over it. since one very large poplar has already died in that paddock and the other looks on the verge of death, the paddock has no shade at all in summer. of course whilst no doubt necessary, this permanent and expensive-looking sail and its frame looks like something from expo 88', and is not at all like the thai-style shelter opposite in the bull paddock, thus somewhat ruining the feel of the village.......... bah!
okay so heres the juicy bit...(skip this part hornbill, contain yourself zooboy)
the elephants, all five, were together in the same paddock. which is a rarity.
kulab 9, and dokkoon 15, were positively fighting for a bit of bong-su's attention. in fact, the big fella couldn't really move anywhere in the enclosure without having two ginormous grey backsides shoved in his face. both females would actually try and push eachother out of the way, desperate to get bong-su to mount them and would nuzzle backwards until he was virtually on top of them without even meaning to.
now, sure, unlike randy gung, he was almost, but no quite going through with it. however, the zoo did say that he seemed to be showing alot of interest and doing alot of things right in the courting process (such as urine sniffing - awesome!) so the keeper said they were pretty glad about that.
apparently it is hoped he will breed naturally with these two females (interestingly they said the youngest elephant who's about 7, is "too young") although dokkoon at 15 apparently has a date with the germans soon.
what was interesting to see was how well adjusted the whole group is. at 33, bong-su is a very big bull so he can potentially cause a lot of damage if he flips a female. however, for the most part, he was rather gentle, added plenty of trunk twining etc.. and judging by the sexed-up behaviour of the females, they found it all rather arousing (and thats an understatement).
just in case things did get too rough, a keeper was on standby, ready to "call him off" if needed, however i noticed the famels had a much strong guardian keeping an eye on them - when he did take it a little too far, before a keeper had so much as even had a chance to stand-up, kapah had trumpeted loudy ran as fast as i have ever seen her move before, and pushed her way between bong-su and the female.
she has known bong-su since they were babies and she seems to know its her job to protect the others from him. the perfect matriarch. she's still my favorite elephant.
so see jelle?, sometimes older elephants can integrate just perfectly with younger ones, not only getting along, but actually assuming the role they were meant to have. mek kapah knows very much how to be an elephant and anyone who sees melbourne elephants interacting would find it hard to guess who was "new" and who wasn't. in fact dokkoon's closest relationship is with undeniably with kapah, not the younger two.
(i forgot to mention perth zoo, they integrated there's just fine too!)....
after seeing all this i realised melbournes group is going to be just fine. they will breed. and females are truly a bonded tight-nit group that know what they are doing.
and lastly whilst i didn't see the baby peccary (which is apperntly doing very well as both it mum, and the female who lost her peccarylet are feeding him). i hope they keep trying to breed them.
and lastly, i found where the disgusting pig statue at the peccaries came from - some keepers bought it from a nursery. urgh!!
okay - so yesterday i just finished a 48hr stint drawing to make a deadline and what better way that to calm my brain down than a leisurely stroll at my favorite place in the world......
stuff's been improving.
the path at the entrance to the gorilla rainforest has been reconfigured, so as to not have to backtrack to the first viewing area (those who have been will know what i'm talking about). the path now leads direct to the first overlook, not the glass area and the gardens in that area were being cleared to allow a larger view and a giant log has been placed into the garden as a seat, so you can now sit and watch the apes. a good improvement. it always bothered me the way you had to backtrack (although it meant you often had this area to yourself!).
mandrill exhibit is looking barren. needs some attention from the gardeners.
treeshrews (or rats, as everyone liked to call them) were on display in the tree-top apes and monkeys exhibit. so small compared the the species i saw in borneo.
the WC gibbon female is still the star of the exhibit and in love with watching visitors. she spends all her time with her face pressed against teh glass. (these gibbons are the sweetest animals at the zoo i think). the colobus family were still asleep, the lion-tailed macaque male is still obsessed with, ahem, "touching himself" .....
to trail of the elephants , which has had a whole bunch of new "asian style" signage thrown up everywhere (which admittedly is very true to the signs i see in asia). this includes "no poaching" signs in the tiger exhibit (yes "in" the exhibit), and the removal of all bird plaques from the aviaries and new "egg smugglers" signs featuring the birds and their eggs nailed to trees in the aviaries. they are okay, and like i said very authentic. but authentic asian signage is synonymous with "tacky"... but its more educational, i'll give em that...(thoug i could have done without the fancy new "tiger bridge" sign at the tigers).
more otters a back in the otter exhibit. binturongs gone. (good)
the tiger exhibit had also had some modifications, fencing off a section of garden so that keepers could stand here and feed the tigers milk through the fence and do talks. this is a good addition as we all know keeper talks that get the animals active are the way to go...
unfortunately like any add-on at a zoo, the fence was in a different style to everything else (not bamboo) and the same went for a whole bunch of additions at the elephants.........
when i got to the elephants i was once again impressed with how great the gardens are looking. even the bangalow palms (who usually frizzle in melbourne summers) where lush and green, the bamboo's and bananas were tall and transplanted trees were established and taking off...
the big difference here was that the village paddock had a new enormous shade sail installed over it. since one very large poplar has already died in that paddock and the other looks on the verge of death, the paddock has no shade at all in summer. of course whilst no doubt necessary, this permanent and expensive-looking sail and its frame looks like something from expo 88', and is not at all like the thai-style shelter opposite in the bull paddock, thus somewhat ruining the feel of the village.......... bah!
okay so heres the juicy bit...(skip this part hornbill, contain yourself zooboy)
the elephants, all five, were together in the same paddock. which is a rarity.
kulab 9, and dokkoon 15, were positively fighting for a bit of bong-su's attention. in fact, the big fella couldn't really move anywhere in the enclosure without having two ginormous grey backsides shoved in his face. both females would actually try and push eachother out of the way, desperate to get bong-su to mount them and would nuzzle backwards until he was virtually on top of them without even meaning to.
now, sure, unlike randy gung, he was almost, but no quite going through with it. however, the zoo did say that he seemed to be showing alot of interest and doing alot of things right in the courting process (such as urine sniffing - awesome!) so the keeper said they were pretty glad about that.
apparently it is hoped he will breed naturally with these two females (interestingly they said the youngest elephant who's about 7, is "too young") although dokkoon at 15 apparently has a date with the germans soon.
what was interesting to see was how well adjusted the whole group is. at 33, bong-su is a very big bull so he can potentially cause a lot of damage if he flips a female. however, for the most part, he was rather gentle, added plenty of trunk twining etc.. and judging by the sexed-up behaviour of the females, they found it all rather arousing (and thats an understatement).
just in case things did get too rough, a keeper was on standby, ready to "call him off" if needed, however i noticed the famels had a much strong guardian keeping an eye on them - when he did take it a little too far, before a keeper had so much as even had a chance to stand-up, kapah had trumpeted loudy ran as fast as i have ever seen her move before, and pushed her way between bong-su and the female.
she has known bong-su since they were babies and she seems to know its her job to protect the others from him. the perfect matriarch. she's still my favorite elephant.
so see jelle?, sometimes older elephants can integrate just perfectly with younger ones, not only getting along, but actually assuming the role they were meant to have. mek kapah knows very much how to be an elephant and anyone who sees melbourne elephants interacting would find it hard to guess who was "new" and who wasn't. in fact dokkoon's closest relationship is with undeniably with kapah, not the younger two.
(i forgot to mention perth zoo, they integrated there's just fine too!)....
after seeing all this i realised melbournes group is going to be just fine. they will breed. and females are truly a bonded tight-nit group that know what they are doing.
and lastly whilst i didn't see the baby peccary (which is apperntly doing very well as both it mum, and the female who lost her peccarylet are feeding him). i hope they keep trying to breed them.
and lastly, i found where the disgusting pig statue at the peccaries came from - some keepers bought it from a nursery. urgh!!
hey mark. the cows dokkoon and kulab are ready to breed and teh zoo is currently hoping either of them fall pregnant. there was an article in the paper here recently saying the dookoon was about to come in estrus and they were hoping for the best. however, the keeper yesterday said that whilst they hoped all worked out naturally, that they would be getting the AI team out here "in the next few months" if dookoon doesn't fall pregnant. i guess they figure at 9, kulab has a little bit longer to try the natural way.
whilst the females seem to know exactly what to do, its bong-su who appears a little (and fairly so) unexperienced. he was almost doing it but not quite.
whilst the females seem to know exactly what to do, its bong-su who appears a little (and fairly so) unexperienced. he was almost doing it but not quite.
MARK
Well-Known Member
The very best of luck with them Pat I am hoping all go's well with babies being born at Taronga as well. Bongs looks like a great looking bull (from photos), just wondering if the keepers could train him to mount the cows?.
I had hoped the Perths program would of kicked off by now so I dont know where they are going to go now, maybe import two more females.
With the Elephants at Aust zoo, who knows? hope they start a program sooner than later
I had hoped the Perths program would of kicked off by now so I dont know where they are going to go now, maybe import two more females.
With the Elephants at Aust zoo, who knows? hope they start a program sooner than later
the zoos are pushing hard to breed all breedable females so their is a maximum of 8 new elephants being in the region in the next 5 or 6 years (though unlikely)... thats quite a few.
personally, being mr-exhibit-too small i'm now resting my hopes on a mass elephant population explosion, thus illustrating perfectly to the in-denial zoos that they don't have enough space.
if this happens i bet you see an asian elephant exhibit built at werribee, which then places more pressure on them to move them all there.
it'll happen, eventually. i'm certain
personally, being mr-exhibit-too small i'm now resting my hopes on a mass elephant population explosion, thus illustrating perfectly to the in-denial zoos that they don't have enough space.
if this happens i bet you see an asian elephant exhibit built at werribee, which then places more pressure on them to move them all there.
it'll happen, eventually. i'm certain
Pat you had a similar experience to me (see my info that I put in the wrong thread), I saw the peccary baby and he is looking good, about half the size of the adults now. I'm glad you saw the behaviour of the two females with Bong Su. He really is a magnificant looking bull. I didn't see Meks behaviour though. Hopefully there will be at least one pregnancy there soon.
yes i read your post after i wrote mine jay.
pretty full-on on the females part eh? i had no idea female elephants, and forgive me here, "positively gagged for it" the way those two were. it was particularly bizarre watching both backing up in him at one, gently nudging eachother out of the way......."pick me, pick me"
the gross part is you catch yourself standing there thinking "aw comeon, just %@#$ her already!"....
the best was the guy who walked in amongst the crowd (who was all watching with a slightly uneasy fascination) and loudly proclaimed to his kid:
"aw look thats the mummy elephant and she loves her baby elephant"....
eventually he realised this was elephant **** and moved his kid elsewhere.
pretty full-on on the females part eh? i had no idea female elephants, and forgive me here, "positively gagged for it" the way those two were. it was particularly bizarre watching both backing up in him at one, gently nudging eachother out of the way......."pick me, pick me"
the gross part is you catch yourself standing there thinking "aw comeon, just %@#$ her already!"....
the best was the guy who walked in amongst the crowd (who was all watching with a slightly uneasy fascination) and loudly proclaimed to his kid:
"aw look thats the mummy elephant and she loves her baby elephant"....
eventually he realised this was elephant **** and moved his kid elsewhere.
MARK
Well-Known Member
wow i am excited pat- and not for the randynesslol
great news, great reveiw! PICS PLZ!!!!!!!
Yes PAT, Pics please, oh some pics of your trip would be nice too, the Sumatran rhino please
lol 
bugger,
i don't take pics usually. i usually just walk past the zoo if i am rewarding myself by going home early from work or something like that. but i'll be sure to next time a new exhibit opens.
(and i'll post you a rhino mark, but they ain't very good, i warn you)
i don't take pics usually. i usually just walk past the zoo if i am rewarding myself by going home early from work or something like that. but i'll be sure to next time a new exhibit opens.
(and i'll post you a rhino mark, but they ain't very good, i warn you)
wow, incredibly exciting Patrick. given Mek Kepahs beautiful behaviour towards her keepers i guess integration was always a goal. and its fantastic to see her role as matriach evolve over time.
wonder how many elephants will be pregnant by this time next year?
im still excited by the prospect of both Melbourne and Taronga zoo expanding their elephant habitats. due to Melbourne' sporadic funding and Taronga's Asian Highland precinct being put possibly on the back burner it remains an option.
either way, with elephants breeding in this country the zoo community now faces choices and options. my hope is for a male calf or two to start with, then females (i guess moving a male calf to a different facility such as Australia Zoo will attract less criticism, at least until the breeding proram really gets underway and the zoos can say to opponents "listen, we know what were doing. we bred this female calf 10 years ago, shes moving with a bonded half sister to Perth and this practice is commonplace in EEP snd SSP i other regions".
wonder how many elephants will be pregnant by this time next year?
im still excited by the prospect of both Melbourne and Taronga zoo expanding their elephant habitats. due to Melbourne' sporadic funding and Taronga's Asian Highland precinct being put possibly on the back burner it remains an option.
either way, with elephants breeding in this country the zoo community now faces choices and options. my hope is for a male calf or two to start with, then females (i guess moving a male calf to a different facility such as Australia Zoo will attract less criticism, at least until the breeding proram really gets underway and the zoos can say to opponents "listen, we know what were doing. we bred this female calf 10 years ago, shes moving with a bonded half sister to Perth and this practice is commonplace in EEP snd SSP i other regions".
Reading between the lines here- it seems Melbourne's bull 'Bong Su' still hasn't actually mated a female yet? Otherwise they wouldn't be hinting at AI at this early stage. Its okay everyone being upbeat about his 'nearly' attempts, but being a mature bull- even if he hasn't mated previously- he should be able to mount and penetrate younger cows without any difficulty at all. Surely at least one or more has been in oestrus since he's had access to them? What's the score?
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the reference to AI has been touted by both taronga and melbourne since the import scandal, and even Taronga was talking about it recently. as zoopro recently hinted, semen can now be imported, but the way things are going this tool might need to be explored later on down the track.
now, my next question is.....what is peoples position on sending Auckland zoos female elephants to Perth to try and establish a 'herd grouping' there and increase the stimulus for breeding (as well as trying to establish the new zealand female as a potential founder)?
from our new zealand members, what is auckland zoos exhibit actually like? it looks good.....i it? would these animals be better off staying at auckland as ambassadors in a great exhibit or is it substandard and could the animals justifiably be sent to oz?
now, my next question is.....what is peoples position on sending Auckland zoos female elephants to Perth to try and establish a 'herd grouping' there and increase the stimulus for breeding (as well as trying to establish the new zealand female as a potential founder)?
from our new zealand members, what is auckland zoos exhibit actually like? it looks good.....i it? would these animals be better off staying at auckland as ambassadors in a great exhibit or is it substandard and could the animals justifiably be sent to oz?
Great update on Melbourne Zoo Patrick, and all you Aussies must be overjoyed with the elephant news down under. It's amazing how the imported elephants have invigorated so many people here at ZooBeat. Over here in North America there are almost 80 zoos with elephants and perhaps we take them for granted, but in Australia they used to be few and far between. Now the future is looking fantastic, and if Australia Zoo up near Brisbane has to replace its aging pachyderms then the continent will be positively brimming with elephants! Perhaps Monarto Zoo will eventually jump on the bandwagon, as they would be a great choice due to the massive amount of land that is there. I wonder if they are considering importing a small herd...
kashin has been assesed and is infertile. so sadly auckland have no contribution to make in that department, not that they were going to anyway.
at perth, the bull and cow mate so the interest is there and doesn't seem to be the problem. whilst i'm sure all elephants would be happier together its not gonna happen and to be honest, i hope auckland ends up elephantless.
they seem to have made very little commitment so far, even backed out of a few!
Bong Su
Can someone answer this one question- has Bong Su actually mated any of the Melbourne female elephants yet?
With untried males, there are really only two questions to ask;
1. Does he mate naturally?
2. Is he fertile?.
If both are affirmative, babies should follow....
Can someone answer this one question- has Bong Su actually mated any of the Melbourne female elephants yet?
With untried males, there are really only two questions to ask;
1. Does he mate naturally?
2. Is he fertile?.
If both are affirmative, babies should follow....
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he is definitely fully fertile. melbourne tested both their existing animals before the zoo had imported the three thai elephants.
he used to mount kapah, but from what i have heard - i don't think he actually knows what he's doing and doesn't go all the way.
so i don't have massively high hopes for natural breedings just yet. however like taronga melbourne has all elephants trained in AI procedures and i was told they have plenty of bong-su "on ice"
the logical thing would be to get another male to teach him as coming to melbourne as a baby he clearly has teh interest but not teh knowledge of what to do. of course i don't see any way the zoos would bother doing that.
he used to mount kapah, but from what i have heard - i don't think he actually knows what he's doing and doesn't go all the way.
so i don't have massively high hopes for natural breedings just yet. however like taronga melbourne has all elephants trained in AI procedures and i was told they have plenty of bong-su "on ice"
the logical thing would be to get another male to teach him as coming to melbourne as a baby he clearly has teh interest but not teh knowledge of what to do. of course i don't see any way the zoos would bother doing that.
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