Melbourne Zoo Melbourne Zoo visits...
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dragon(ele)nerd
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The exhibits don't look the best at all which i agree on Patirck but the zoo i think does have a rough time of keeping them all up to date. I do wonder if Timothy the pygmy hippo will return from Taronga. Because if not the zoo should redesign the old hippo exhibit for the otters. Once a FOTZ group said to me that a kid shouldn't enter the zoo by himself even though i'm a FOTZ member as well though they did say that to me that they heard from the keepers that the old Pygmy hippo exhibit is good enough for otters.
The elephant ranger station is a little screwed up yes, the Malay doesn't make sense, once my parents came with me and confirmed that they didn't even spell it right! I cannot believe some of the things in in the zoo some are as stuffed up as the weather(我不能够相信它) And the animals in there aren't native like patrick said. I wonder who wrote the signs?
Though i do wonder how they will turn the old otter exhibit into a successful Binturong exhibit. A lot of things around the zoo have gotten messed up since a lot of the animals went to Taronga. But maybe this fuss is all for the wellbeing of the animals?
The seal exhibit is something to look out for though.
The elephant ranger station is a little screwed up yes, the Malay doesn't make sense, once my parents came with me and confirmed that they didn't even spell it right! I cannot believe some of the things in in the zoo some are as stuffed up as the weather(我不能够相信它) And the animals in there aren't native like patrick said. I wonder who wrote the signs?
Though i do wonder how they will turn the old otter exhibit into a successful Binturong exhibit. A lot of things around the zoo have gotten messed up since a lot of the animals went to Taronga. But maybe this fuss is all for the wellbeing of the animals?
The seal exhibit is something to look out for though.
Should we call that alcohol abuse, morning showers and walking the zoo grounds your punishment for luxury, ay!
Tell me, any new plans on the board for Melbourne? What was this with the baboons moving? Does Melbourne still wants pygmy hippo back (ironically both Singapore and Colombo Zoos have surplus animals to move)?
What is actually the current ARAZPA TAG tag on the pygmy hippo?
Can one as an Associate actually access the ARAZPA TAG papers at all?
Bottoms down (this time, it is only 13.30 here, I guess you are all well up at the local pub!!!)
or
a cheers or 5,
Jelle
Melbourne Zoo. similar size to Taronga, similar age, similar collection. But the funding arrangements between the two zoos contrast tellingly, with Melbourne having a distinctive feeling of stagnancy.
the newer exhibits like the Gorilla Rainforest are nice, as is TOTE and the Asian Forest zone, but they all need doing up with imagination and sensitivity, not the kind of improvements of late.
Other areas of the zoo lag behind markedly. The number of really daggy enclosures is amazing....
penguins, red panda, babboons, patigonian cavy, maned wolves, small cats, lions and hunting dogs, waterfowl, big cats, bears,primate islands, meerkats....all really dated enclosures. the cafe/eatery is **** house. Melbourne Zoo mightnt get big cash injections other than for capital works but i cant help but feel that the demolition of empty exhibits, the transfer of some exhibits out of Melbourne to Weribee, an overhaul of the catering dept, and a 'good' update of newer enclosures might do the trick. Some of these improvements would be major but most minor....
Improvements.....
penguins=Stories of the Sea and get rid of the old exhibit
red pandas=new enclosure like the tree kangaroos on the site of the cavy exhibit
babboons=either moved to Weribee or put in where the Orangs used to be
treetop primates=rewired, boardwalk and handrails improved, signage updated and species composition changed to suggest more of a transition between geographic zones...incorporate more aves, herpes etc.
reaquirre pygmy hippo asap
new enclosures for small cats=serval to Werribee, fishing cats to the rice paddy aviary, binturong into an 'binturong proof' (how hard could that actually be) otter exhibit
gorilla=get rid of artificial play equipment
elephants=the zoo needs to remember what this exhibit is supposed to represent and not distort the theme with disprdant add-ons
mandrill=source new stock, fix this exhibit up
asian bird aviaires=asian birds, not owls. non asian reptiles dont go into asian exhibits
emporer tamarins dont belong in African forests
CAPITAL WORKS....FUTURE PROOFING
An immersion style 'Simba Kopje' type exhibit for lions, hyeana, meerkats. Hunting dogs, zebra, giraffe and ostrich all to Weribee
An Asian temperate zone for Asian temperate species
A South American exhibit
Expansion of Asian Elephant bull paddock
Renovation of reptile exhibit
New Food Market
In the 1990s this zoo was incredibly progressive. Subsequent developments seem to emphasise too much cultural tie-ins. These look great and are great, but in contrast to an Asian rainforest or African Rainforest which grow to look better with time and require only minimal maintenance these cultural immersion style exhibits seem prone to falling apart rapidly and having their themes distorted.
the newer exhibits like the Gorilla Rainforest are nice, as is TOTE and the Asian Forest zone, but they all need doing up with imagination and sensitivity, not the kind of improvements of late.
Other areas of the zoo lag behind markedly. The number of really daggy enclosures is amazing....
penguins, red panda, babboons, patigonian cavy, maned wolves, small cats, lions and hunting dogs, waterfowl, big cats, bears,primate islands, meerkats....all really dated enclosures. the cafe/eatery is **** house. Melbourne Zoo mightnt get big cash injections other than for capital works but i cant help but feel that the demolition of empty exhibits, the transfer of some exhibits out of Melbourne to Weribee, an overhaul of the catering dept, and a 'good' update of newer enclosures might do the trick. Some of these improvements would be major but most minor....
Improvements.....
penguins=Stories of the Sea and get rid of the old exhibit
red pandas=new enclosure like the tree kangaroos on the site of the cavy exhibit
babboons=either moved to Weribee or put in where the Orangs used to be
treetop primates=rewired, boardwalk and handrails improved, signage updated and species composition changed to suggest more of a transition between geographic zones...incorporate more aves, herpes etc.
reaquirre pygmy hippo asap
new enclosures for small cats=serval to Werribee, fishing cats to the rice paddy aviary, binturong into an 'binturong proof' (how hard could that actually be) otter exhibit
gorilla=get rid of artificial play equipment
elephants=the zoo needs to remember what this exhibit is supposed to represent and not distort the theme with disprdant add-ons
mandrill=source new stock, fix this exhibit up
asian bird aviaires=asian birds, not owls. non asian reptiles dont go into asian exhibits
emporer tamarins dont belong in African forests
CAPITAL WORKS....FUTURE PROOFING
An immersion style 'Simba Kopje' type exhibit for lions, hyeana, meerkats. Hunting dogs, zebra, giraffe and ostrich all to Weribee
An Asian temperate zone for Asian temperate species
A South American exhibit
Expansion of Asian Elephant bull paddock
Renovation of reptile exhibit
New Food Market
In the 1990s this zoo was incredibly progressive. Subsequent developments seem to emphasise too much cultural tie-ins. These look great and are great, but in contrast to an Asian rainforest or African Rainforest which grow to look better with time and require only minimal maintenance these cultural immersion style exhibits seem prone to falling apart rapidly and having their themes distorted.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
I must ask what has happened to our zoo?
I never though that the staff were so reckless.
I never though that the staff were so reckless.
meerkats have two exhibits at the zoo (one near the entrance and one outside the lion park) but i have to disagree that either are old or "daggy" both have glass fronts and are pretty standard meerkat fare for what i have seen at any other zoo...
again the red panda exhibits are pretty standard in my opinion. better than the ones i last saw at taronga, as at least they both feature large mature trees. a bamboo screen facade on the visitor side of the perimeter fence is about all i consider necessary to give it a facelift.
the patagonian cavies left the zoo a couple of years ago. i think to adelaide (to die out!). whilst not at all "modern" the exhibit was relandscaped with native plants to house surplus quokka from the australian section.
the maned wold exhibit and big cats is really only is a let down due to the cyclone fencing that is used for the cages. it actually doesn't bother me as much as it does you - since i think they are nicely landscaped and at the end of the day a fence is a fence to an animal. long term i would like to see the fronts replaced with the sort of thin vertical "piano wires" that tarongas snow leopard exhibit used. thats a nice unobtrusive look. the area has had a bit of work in recent years, with "new rusted" cable railing added here and there and so its looking better. the gardening team have been slowly focusing a bit more of their time to work here..
lions and hunting dogs - again, its actually as good a space as any other zoos, from an animals perspective. however, i'm sure thats not your problem with it. my biggest issue is that the wild dogs can only be viewed from the overpass. i see it as an exhibit that, with a fresh coat of black paint on the fence, a couple of glass window installed and a bit of landscaping, rendering and african inspired thematics would scrub up great. to me its a cheap refurb - not a rebuild.
but the bears - if you though it was bad before, you should see it now. the the largest tree was cut down and the pool permanently lowered. it now looks like nothing more than a barren concrete pit. along with the now "hidden" great ape grottoes its easily the worst exhibit at melbourne and what i consider the real embarrassment.
my suspicion is that the lakeside foodcourt (which i agree absolutely sucks!) will be incorporated into the marine precinct as its right next door to it (fish and chips?
), probably with minimal work and a bit of disguising as they did with the food court on TOTE. lastly, on your suggested improvements i largely agree.
a few comments...
what i'm hoping is that the zoo acquire the young male pygmy hippo from cairns ASAP (and leave timothy at taronga permanently) allowing cairns to immediately breed again. that pair needs to keep breeding until they produce a female to account for the possibility of the taronga zoo having only a male calf (the pair are not spring chickens and there's no guarantee they will produce more than one calf, if that). currently, we are told (by bigcat) that cairns have halting breeding pygmies. which, in the big picture, is foolish.
the treetop monkeys has all new glass windows now and it makes a massive difference. there is a little more work to be done (i'd "africanise" the railings roofing etc) but its looking a lot better and i think at the very least an exhibit of this style should be in the long term plans for the zoo. eventually i hope the zoo uses it to hold african monkeys only. with seven cages it could easily be used to "double up" and help alleviate space issues for some programs. bachelor groups could be created for mandrill, de brazza and vervet guenons and colobus in this space without compromising its appeal.
oh and the emperor tamarins have long been gone from the entrance to the "gorilla rainforest" (the lovebirds are now in that cage), however when the african rainforest also features asian otters, spider monkeys, tree shrews, langurs, macaques and a gardening team with no sense of geography - i hardly think it matters!
CAPITAL WORKS....FUTURE PROOFING
An immersion style 'Simba Kopje' type exhibit for lions, hyeana, meerkats. Hunting dogs, zebra, giraffe and ostrich all to Weribee
An Asian temperate zone for Asian temperate species
A South American exhibit
Expansion of Asian Elephant bull paddock
Renovation of reptile exhibit
New Food Market
In the 1990s this zoo was incredibly progressive. Subsequent developments seem to emphasise too much cultural tie-ins. These look great and are great, but in contrast to an Asian rainforest or African Rainforest which grow to look better with time and require only minimal maintenance these cultural immersion style exhibits seem prone to falling apart rapidly and having their themes distorted.[/QUOTE]
Depressing Melbourne Zoo - shame on you
I visited this zoo a couple of weeks ago and hope the RSPCA expose the treatment by way of tiny cages the small cats have to live in. For God sake Melbourne Zoo if you can't give the creatures a place to exercise - give them away to another zoo or swap for other animals. What really got me was the old exhibit with the cardboard cut out of a big cat inside showing how the enclosures use to look - what has changed for the bobcats!! There is a book out on the cruelty of zoos on animals - I wonder if this zoo is mentioned in it. The maned wolf looked so depressed it made me sick. First and last visit to this place. I was told it will be "some years before they will get around to giving the small cats a decent house" by a zoo official.
I'm yet to locate the book which really hammers zoos - becoming more and more against them as time goes by.
I visited this zoo a couple of weeks ago and hope the RSPCA expose the treatment by way of tiny cages the small cats have to live in. For God sake Melbourne Zoo if you can't give the creatures a place to exercise - give them away to another zoo or swap for other animals. What really got me was the old exhibit with the cardboard cut out of a big cat inside showing how the enclosures use to look - what has changed for the bobcats!! There is a book out on the cruelty of zoos on animals - I wonder if this zoo is mentioned in it. The maned wolf looked so depressed it made me sick. First and last visit to this place. I was told it will be "some years before they will get around to giving the small cats a decent house" by a zoo official.
I'm yet to locate the book which really hammers zoos - becoming more and more against them as time goes by.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
I'd hate to see animals go but i guess i agree that animals deserve better in Melbourne zoo. Perhaps my conscious was right i wonder if Melbourne zoo did bite off much than they can chew with the Elephant Exhibit. And can't rebuild other animal's homes. Although when i go to the zoo it is still pretty full but i think crowds might of died down a bit. Just wondering.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
It really depends on what kind of depression your talking about, usually the first sign to notice if an animal is depressed is much like a human, ears down, dropping, slouching and a somewhat moping. But there could be a difference between rejection from the group and long-term depression so it is best to find out if all of the Maned wolves of the pack look depress. Don't ask keepers obvoiusly they will talk about how happy they are.
What are you talking about here?
1.The symptoms you describe would, for a wolf or dog, indicate illness, not 'depression'. And I've never seen a human with its ears 'down'...
2.Maned wolves do not live in packs. They lead mainly solitary lives so the zoo is likely to have one, two or three at the most.
I suggest you check out your facts a bit better.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about here?
1.The symptoms you describe would, for a wolf or dog, indicate illness, not 'depression'. And I've never seen a human with its ears 'down'...
2.Maned wolves do not live in packs. They lead mainly solitary lives so the zoo is likely to have one, two or three at the most.
I suggest you check out your facts a bit better.
I was simply talking metaphorically. As for the packs many National geographic shows though i can't really remmeber, shows that Maned wolves do live in packs.
It's nice once in a while though for someone to prove me wrong.
i love maned wolves. so glad we have them in australia and not real wolves.
they don't live in packs as far as i know (the zoo has one - had more just a couple of years ago). however i will say this.....
i've actually come around full circle a bit here. the whole notion of "he needs a friend" so often touted by the public might not be so far off, even for usually solitary animals.
unnatural it may be, but zoos are completely unnatural places. in particular, there is not even a hit of natural lifestyle about it for carnivores. so i actually believe that the presence of a mate is a stimulus a form of behavioral enrichment that is whilst not necessarily natural, hardly any less natural than keeping a leopard in a cage and feeding them dead chickens.
thus i'm slightly uncomfortable with zoos keeping only a single individual of a species long term. this seems odd because i think zoos holding solitary species like sunbears in pairs year round and then wondering why they won't breed is foolish. but separated breeding animals benefit from having another animal to interact with - even if its only on an auditory basis (ie - the "mate" is house next door nearby) or temporarily every year or so..
even solitary animals have complex social behaviors and so thus since boredom in zoo carnivores (or others) is such a problem, i think in some cases solitary species can and should be maintained for their own enrichment if compatible.
melbournes jaguars or snow leopards are good examples. both apparently solitary species, yet, like domestic cats both animals clearly have not only a close bond with their mate. both cat pairs enjoy frequent contact and affection as part of their lives.
now when that life is spent in a small cage with nothing to hunt. thats probably quite important.
they don't live in packs as far as i know (the zoo has one - had more just a couple of years ago). however i will say this.....
i've actually come around full circle a bit here. the whole notion of "he needs a friend" so often touted by the public might not be so far off, even for usually solitary animals.
unnatural it may be, but zoos are completely unnatural places. in particular, there is not even a hit of natural lifestyle about it for carnivores. so i actually believe that the presence of a mate is a stimulus a form of behavioral enrichment that is whilst not necessarily natural, hardly any less natural than keeping a leopard in a cage and feeding them dead chickens.
thus i'm slightly uncomfortable with zoos keeping only a single individual of a species long term. this seems odd because i think zoos holding solitary species like sunbears in pairs year round and then wondering why they won't breed is foolish. but separated breeding animals benefit from having another animal to interact with - even if its only on an auditory basis (ie - the "mate" is house next door nearby) or temporarily every year or so..
even solitary animals have complex social behaviors and so thus since boredom in zoo carnivores (or others) is such a problem, i think in some cases solitary species can and should be maintained for their own enrichment if compatible.
melbournes jaguars or snow leopards are good examples. both apparently solitary species, yet, like domestic cats both animals clearly have not only a close bond with their mate. both cat pairs enjoy frequent contact and affection as part of their lives.
now when that life is spent in a small cage with nothing to hunt. thats probably quite important.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
My god you are the smart, perhaps smarter than a 5th grader just kidding Thanks for that info.
I just finished work and this whole discussion has happened. I don't think that the maned wolf looks depressed. He has probabley the most private exhibit in the zoo, enough space and is always perky and quite alert.
And Patrick i agree about the wild dogs. I would swap the lions (maybe two instead of the four) and put the hunting dogs on the lion side so people can get a bettwer look. Or even better rotate them on a daily basis.
And Patrick i agree about the wild dogs. I would swap the lions (maybe two instead of the four) and put the hunting dogs on the lion side so people can get a bettwer look. Or even better rotate them on a daily basis.
... that's news to me....
I'm not trying to put you down but there is always a danger of interpreting animal behaviour with that of humans under similar circumstances and drawing parallels.. The way it 'looks' could indicate illness, or depression, or something else entirely....
mmmmm. You can look at this from several angles I think. It might depend on how exclusively solitary the species is in its habits in the first place. Also how easy it is for the two members of a 'solitary' species kept either together, or in adjacent pens, to be able to avoid each other. Where is the boundary between it being a beneficial experience- or a stressful one....? (just asking the question..)
Clearly, in terms of potential for breeding, Melbourne could do with another maned wolf. I've seen them in various zoos but have never noticed an interaction between two living in the same enclosure. If active at the same time they seem to use seperate 'routes' which seem designed for avoidance purposes....they are great animals though- especially their smell...phew!
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