Mixed species enclosures and other changes for Burgers Zoo

[Mr Gharial]

Green iguanas compete with lesser Antillean iguanas, and they might even hybridize

Alright then, so the Lesser Antilleans will be seperate

Cuban crocodiles are excellent bird hunters (they jump out of the water to get them). Unless their exhibit is netted those birds won't live long.

Their enclosure is pretty deep, and I've seen crocodilians and birds in shared enclosures plenty of times, so I think if they're well fed it'll be fine

I don't recall that four-eyed opossums live on American islands. Are they a proxy for another species?

Strange... I could swear I saw their distribution range to cuba, but I can't find it anymore. I'll take them out

You know that the Caribbean islands are geographically part of North America? A more accurate description would be the Neotropical islands.

It's on it's own continental plate, so I actually think it's strange that it's part of North America and not South America, because it's a big cultural and climatical difference

 

[Jarne]

Their enclosure is pretty deep, and I've seen crocodilians and birds in shared enclosures plenty of times, so I think if they're well fed it'll be fine

But have you seen cuban crocodiles with birds, especially in a greenhouse where they take up so much space? In Randers they might have been mixed, but their enclosure is only a tiny part of the entire dome. You'd need to make sure not a single branch would be within jumping distance, so no vegetation at all near the enclosure.

Also feeding crocodiles so that they are always well fed negatively impacts their welfare. They need fasting days just like many carnivores.

 

[Mr Gharial]

But have you seen cuban crocodiles with birds, especially in a greenhouse where they take up so much space? In Randers they might have been mixed, but their enclosure is only a tiny part of the entire dome.

Good point, but I have no idea how to properly implement a seperation

 

[Jarne]

Good point, but I have no idea how to properly implement a seperation

Same way as the bush, flexible netting over the entire exhibit.

 

[Mr Gharial]

Same way as the bush, flexible netting over the entire exhibit.

Sorry, I meant how to do it without ruining the view from the sides

 

[Mr Gharial]

Sorry, I meant how to do it without ruining the view from the sides

I can put a net between the blue iguana cliff and the end of the crocodile exhibit, but I don't know how to porperly incorperate it with the cuban swamp hut

 

[JurassicMax]

I can put a net between the blue iguana cliff and the end of the crocodile exhibit, but I don't know how to porperly incorperate it with the cuban swamp hut

You could make the netting look like old/drying fishnets, which could be a nice day of incorporating the netting with the Cuban swamp hut.

 

[DaLilFishie]

Would cohabbing a couple different Canthigaster species work? I'm thinking Valentin's Sharpnose Puffer, Papuan Toby, White Spotted Sharpnose Puffer and Carribean Sharpnose Puffer, with 2-3 individuals of each species. Also would it be safe to mix a Valentini Mimic Filefish with Valentin's Sharpnose Puffer?

 

[Jarne]

Would cohabbing a couple different Canthigaster species work? I'm thinking Valentin's Sharpnose Puffer, Papuan Toby, White Spotted Sharpnose Puffer and Carribean Sharpnose Puffer, with 2-3 individuals of each species. Also would it be safe to mix a Valentini Mimic Filefish with Valentin's Sharpnose Puffer?

I doubt that such a puffer tank would work in a animal-friendly way. I know that multiple puffers have been combined in large tanks, but I don't think I've seen more then 3 puffers such tanks. The filefish and puffers together should work in big aquaria according to this article (Filefish: A bit of rough! - Practical Fishkeeping).

 

[Mr Gharial]

But have you seen cuban crocodiles with birds, especially in a greenhouse where they take up so much space? In Randers they might have been mixed, but their enclosure is only a tiny part of the entire dome. You'd need to make sure not a single branch would be within jumping distance, so no vegetation at all near the enclosure.

Also feeding crocodiles so that they are always well fed negatively impacts their welfare. They need fasting days just like many carnivores.

Actually, yes. Not cuban crocodiles specifically. But with nile crocs. The majority of the greenhouse is actually one huge nile croc enclosure with over 300 nile crocodiles and also some other crocodile species, like morelet's crocodiles, false gharials, american alligators, philippene crocodiles, and spectabled caimans

 

[Jarne]

Actually, yes. Not cuban crocodiles specifically. But with nile crocs. The majority of the greenhouse is actually one huge nile croc enclosure with over 300 nile crocodiles and also some other crocodile species, like morelet's crocodiles, false gharials, american alligators, philippene crocodiles, and spectabled caimans

Ah, Pierelatte. I've seen it as well but there is more space without crocodiles there than you realize. You have the tortoise enclosures where the rollers and some of the songbirds liked to stay, the forest in the back where the turaco was when I visited and in general the areas alongside the paths. There was also plenty of land area for the crocs where the birds could stay relatively safe, it's only in the water that they are really dangerous to birds. Nile crocs are also not known to jump out of the water the way Cubans do. The wading birds favorite (breeding?) trees are also not located over water but over the land-part of the croc-enclosure. This together with their species list comprised of relatively common species making it not that big of a deal if one would ever be snatched makes this setup work. The most dangerous species there migth be the alligators, but their area is small and wasn't very popular with the birds.

 

[Mr Gharial]

Ah, Pierelatte. I've seen it as well but there is more space without crocodiles there than you realize.

Fun how you recognised it so quickly

You have the tortoise enclosures where the rollers and some of the songbirds liked to stay, the forest in the back where the turaco was when I visited and in general the areas alongside the paths. There was also plenty of land area for the crocs where the birds could stay relatively safe, it's only in the water that they are really dangerous to birds.

But then, is there really a problem? There is plenty of space for them to go where there aren't crocodiles. There aren't any trees near the crocs, and the water is only really deep under the bridge

 

[Jarne]

Fun how you recognised it so quickly

I've been there myself, and it's the only place I know like that in the world with all their crocs in one big greenhouse (except the Chinese alligators of-course).

If you don't have any trees near the crocs I believe this could work, true. Wether the crocs would like an exhibit without cover is another matter, one which I don't have an answer on just yet.

 

[Mr Gharial]

I've been there myself, and it's the only place I know like that in the world with all their crocs in one big greenhouse (except the Chinese alligators of-course).

If you don't have any trees near the crocs I believe this could work, true. Wether the crocs would like an exhibit without cover is another matter, one which I don't have an answer on just yet.

The blue iguanas live on "barren" rocks with only a few ferns and bushes on the outside part (inside is plenty of foliage though, don't worry). The crocodiles live in a grassy marsh, and the cuban hut borders on the galapagos desert, which is rocky. The cuban Hutias are in an indoor indoor enclosure with only some bushes on top, really. All the trees are really on the other side of the iguanas and outside

 

[Mr Gharial]

Alright, I have an idea for the African Night House

I could make three seperate pangolin enclosures

One breeding enclosure with only a few, smaller viewing windows for minimal stress.

One seperation enclosure with a larger viewing window for a single animal

And one official enclosure for multiple animals, that's larger with a large viewing window, but also space in the back to hide away

 

[Westcoastperson]

Alright, I have an idea for the African Night House

I could make three seperate pangolin enclosures

One breeding enclosure with only a few, smaller viewing windows for minimal stress.

One seperation enclosure with a larger viewing window for a single animal

And one official enclosure for multiple animals, that's larger with a large viewing window, but also space in the back to hide away

That could be a good way to minimize stress and popularize the animal

 

[JurassicMax]

If you really want to be succesfull at breeding this species, you could have the breeding enclosure behind the scenes. This way the pangolins won't suffer from any stress due to visitors etc. I think that the other 2 enclosures would be sufficient to popularize the animals among the general public.

 

[Mr Gharial]

That could be a good way to minimize stress and popularize the animal

I'm currently recreating it in planet zoo, it's coming together nicely. I'm also planning on doing the congo dome

 

[Mr Gharial]

If you really want to be succesfull at breeding this species, you could have the breeding enclosure behind the scenes. This way the pangolins won't suffer from any stress due to visitors etc. I think that the other 2 enclosures would be sufficient to popularize the animals among the general public.

I was planning on doing two or three breeding enclosures, one or two behind the scenes and one with minimal viewing. Four or five enclosures in total, as Burgers zoo would become the only keeper of the species in Europe and also the studbookholder

 

[JurassicMax]

I was planning on doing two or three breeding enclosures, one or two behind the scenes and one with minimal viewing. Four or five enclosures in total, as Burgers zoo would become the only keeper of the species in Europe and also the studbookholder

That sounds really good! Having enough behind the scenes (breeding) enclosures is very important for such a stress sensitive species.