Mixed species enclosures and other changes for Burgers Zoo

[DaLilFishie]

Are there any South American species that could cohab with a Green Anaconda, or would it be best to keep it alone? I imagine small fish would work? Would Porcupine River Rays play nicely with the anaconda? Also any South American species that could be housed with Mata Mata Turtle?

 

[Mr Gharial]

Are there any South American species that could cohab with a Green Anaconda, or would it be best to keep it alone? I imagine small fish would work? Would Porcupine River Rays play nicely with the anaconda? Also any South American species that could be housed with Mata Mata Turtle?

They will eat anything they can get their jaws around, maybe some very fast fish can co-exist with them, but some will probably still be eaten. I doubt they will be able to eat the rays, but I'm afraid that the rays could eat the anaconda.

Small rays would get eaten by the anaconda and big rays might eat the anaconda. I suggest just leaving the anaconda on it's own

The mata mata should be fine with most other animals. Cane toads were discussed earlier on this thread

 

[DaLilFishie]

Small rays would get eaten by the anaconda and big rays might eat the anaconda. I suggest just leaving the anaconda on it's own

River rays don't get that big and feed on fish and crustaceans, I highly doubt they would go after an anaconda, and even if they did they wouldn't be able to eat an adult. I am still leaning towards having the anaconda by itself though.

The mata mata should be fine with most other animals. Cane toads were discussed earlier on this thread

Huh, okay. Cane Toads it is I guess. Thanks!

 

[Mr Gharial]

Pinioning is no longer allowed in the Netherlands, most zoos are decreasing their amount of birds kept flight-restricted. You also have the risk of trampling with those guanacos, especially in a rather small enclosure.

Say, would it be possible for the Southern Screamers to be kept together with the macaws?

 

[Jarne]

Say, would it be possible for the Southern Screamers to be kept together with the macaws?

It has been done in the past, and in some cases they even bred so it seems to work well.

 

[Jarne]

Are there any South American species that could cohab with a Green Anaconda, or would it be best to keep it alone? I imagine small fish would work? Would Porcupine River Rays play nicely with the anaconda? Also any South American species that could be housed with Mata Mata Turtle?

They will eat anything they can get their jaws around, maybe some very fast fish can co-exist with them, but some will probably still be eaten. I doubt they will be able to eat the rays, but I'm afraid that the rays could eat the anaconda.

Small rays would get eaten by the anaconda and big rays might eat the anaconda. I suggest just leaving the anaconda on it's own

The mata mata should be fine with most other animals. Cane toads were discussed earlier on this thread

Anacondas have been kept with a variety of species, including turtles and fishes ranging from very small to ray-size. However larger fishes will be preyed upon without doubt, and cohabitation with turtles can be both stressful and a disease risk for the turtles. Venomous rays could also cause problems for the anaconda, not just via intentional stings but also by accident due to dropped venom-spines. It's best to keep anacondas alone or with tetra-sized fish.

Mata-mata's are often kept with other species, that's true. But that doesn't mean that it's a good combination. Mata-mata are notoriously difficult to breed, in Europe I know of only one public institution that has successfully bred them. Even in the private sector, breeding is almost nonexistent apparently. One problem is possible stress due to aggressive cohabitants like large catfish, arowana, other turtles or crocodilians. However there is another problem with mixing reptiles in general. Mixing animals makes it much harder to regulate the environment, and for sensitive reptiles this is very much necessary. Until all husbandry problems with mata-mata are fixed it's best to not house them with other species.

 

[DaLilFishie]

Would a mix of Cane Toad, Golden Poison Frog, Strawberry Poison Dart Frog and Ranitomeya amazonica work? Idk much about herptiles, but I would like to have a frog display in the South Amercia wing.

 

[Jarne]

Cane toads eat frogs, looks like an expensive dinner. The rest is a mystery to me. Some species of dart frogs have been kept together. But how well this truly goes and wether the species you mention here are suitable for cohabitation is unknown to me.

 

[Mr Gharial]

It has been done in the past, and in some cases they even bred so it seems to work well.

Good! In that case they'll go together

 

[Mr Gharial]

Alright, so you remember the huge walkthrough aviary in Burger's Woods?

Well, I finally got around to translating the whole list of birds

Spotted nutcracker, Eurasian jay, Eurasian hoopoe, European roller, Green bee-eater, European bee-eater, Eurasian skylark, Eurasian golden oriole, Bohemian waxwing, European crested tit, Eurasian bullfinch, Western capercaillie, Hazel grouse, red-legged partridge, Common quail, Willow grouse, Great bustard, Little bustard, Eurasian stone-curlew, Red-breasted goose, Common pochard, Common moorhen, Eurasian coot, Trumpeter swan, Eurasian wigeon, Mallard, Grey heron, Eurasian rabbit

Do you guys think these will all be able to go into a walkthrough aviary together (Note that the aviary is HUGE, of course. Nearly as big as the entire mangrove dome)

 

[FBBird]

Alright, so you remember the huge walkthrough aviary in Burger's Woods?

Well, I finally got around to translating the whole list of birds

Spotted nutcracker, Eurasian jay, Eurasian hoopoe, European roller, Green bee-eater, European bee-eater, Eurasian skylark, Eurasian golden oriole, Bohemian waxwing, European crested tit, Eurasian bullfinch, Western capercaillie, Hazel grouse, red-legged partridge, Common quail, Willow grouse, Great bustard, Little bustard, Eurasian stone-curlew, Red-breasted goose, Common pochard, Common moorhen, Eurasian coot, Trumpeter swan, Eurasian wigeon, Mallard, Grey heron, Eurasian rabbit

Do you guys think these will all be able to go into a walkthrough aviary together (Note that the aviary is HUGE, of course. Nearly as big as the entire mangrove dome)

Grey Herons will eat anything they can catch and swallow up to Moorhen size. Jays and Rollers are likely to kill and eat small Passerines. Mallard are sexually aggressive with other ducks and should not be kept with them. Great Bustards will stalk and eat small birds.

 

[Mr Gharial]

Grey Herons will eat anything they can catch and swallow up to Moorhen size. Jays and Rollers are likely to kill and eat small Passerines. Mallard are sexually aggressive with other ducks and should not be kept with them. Great Bustards will stalk and eat small birds.

That's a shame, any other more eye-catching birds to add though? As the Eurasian Jay and Eurasian Roller were two of the prettiest birds on the list

 

[Jarne]

Multiple species of rollers have been kept with several species of small passerines in Antwerp, so that doesn't seem a problem to me. Eurasian jays are indeed known to be horrible to other birds, the dutch nickname "Rotzak" doesn't come out of thin air (note for the non-dutch people: Rotzak translates roughly to A-hole).

Other herons like egrets (both greater and little) and purple heron have been kept with smaller birds without eating them. Some of the ones I know of have been there for over a decade. Wether grey herons are that much more aggressive then other species is unknown to me, but in general herons seem to be portrayed as far worse cohabitants then they are in my experience. Maybe the rarer purple heron would be a nice alternative.

In general I'd say you have a very high amount of terrestrial birds for such a little space. Those swans could be problematic due to aggression, something that needs both space and a well-designed habitat to be solved. Sight-barriers, side-ponds and plenty of vegetation at the ponds edges can all help.

The chances of every building such an aviary are almost zero. Species like Eurasian jay, grey heron, mallard, moorhen and coot are so omnipresent in the Netherlands that people don't want to see them in an aviary. You could just as easily make a large pond with fishes in front of one of the other enclosures and the heron, cracids and mallards would be visible around it for a large part of the time.

 

[FBBird]

That's a shame, any other more eye-catching birds to add though? As the Eurasian Jay and Eurasian Roller were two of the prettiest birds on the list

Here’s a potential collection for a large European bird walkthrough:
Azure-winged Magpie, Alpine Chough, Red-legged Partridge, European Roller, Northern Lapwing, European Green-winged Teal, Garganey, Red-breasted Goose, Stock Dove, Oystercatcher

 

[Mr Gharial]

Other herons like egrets (both greater and little) and purple heron have been kept with smaller birds without eating them. Some of the ones I know of have been there for over a decade. Wether grey herons are that much more aggressive then other species is unknown to me, but in general herons seem to be portrayed as far worse cohabitants then they are in my experience. Maybe the rarer purple heron would be a nice alternative.

Purple herons are mainly native to Africa, and greater egrets to North America. The little egret appears to be more prominent in Europe though

In general I'd say you have a very high amount of terrestrial birds for such a little space. Those swans could be problematic due to aggression, something that needs both space and a well-designed habitat to be solved. Sight-barriers, side-ponds and plenty of vegetation at the ponds edges can all help.

In that case, which ones do you suggest keeping while still catching the attention of the public?
The western capercaillie and the red-legged partridge are definitely staying, since they're the prettiest (In my opinion)

 

[Mr Gharial]

Here’s a potential collection for a large European bird walkthrough:
Azure-winged Magpie, Alpine Chough, Red-legged Partridge, European Roller, Northern Lapwing, European Green-winged Teal, Garganey, Red-breasted Goose, Stock Dove, Oystercatcher

I don't want to be an ass, but this seems like kind of a boring aviary. Apart from the Magpie, Partridge and Roller, there aren't many birds to look out for. Some old folks might be interested in the other birds, but children will race past it in to time. To be fair, there's a large chance they'll also race past mine, but at least anyone can look for the prettiest bird on the sign

 

[FBBird]

Purple herons are mainly native to Africa, and greater egrets to North America. The little egret appears to be more prominent in Europe though



In that case, which ones do you suggest keeping while still catching the attention of the public?
The western capercaillie and the red-legged partridge are definitely staying, since they're the prettiest (In my opinion)

Capercaillie have a nasty habit of attacking people. They’re not easy to keep either.

 

[Jarne]

Purple herons are mainly native to Africa, and greater egrets to North America. The little egret appears to be more prominent in Europe though

Great egrets and purple herons aren't the most common in Europe no, but they are still European species breeding in several European places. Is an Indian lion in that case not good for an Asian area, just because most of the lions range lies in Africa? I've yet to see purple herons in the wild as they are quite rare and shy, but I've seen great egrets on several occasions. Little egrets are more often kept in large groups however and easier to acquire, so they would be a great species for a European aviary. I've known them housed with several species ranging from pigeon-sized (both terrestrial and arboreal species) to cranes.

I don't want to be an ass, but this seems like kind of a boring aviary. Apart from the Magpie, Partridge and Roller, there aren't many birds to look out for. Some old folks might be interested in the other birds, but children will race past it in to time. To be fair, there's a large chance they'll also race past mine, but at least anyone can look for the prettiest bird on the sign

FBBirds aviary would be much more popular and feasible. Also what's the difference between looking for the "prettiest bird" in your aviary and in his?


I do think that if you want a large European aviary, it might pay of to include vultures. Eurasian black and European griffon are large birds, but in general not dangerous to smaller birds nor people. Red-billed choughs would be a nice flocking species to keep with them. For a waterfowl part, little egrets are a nice base species to keep a group of together with several ducks and possibly some geese. A group of pigeons could also be added.

 

[FBBird]

Great egrets and purple herons aren't the most common in Europe no, but they are still European species breeding in several European places. Is an Indian lion in that case not good for an Asian area, just because most of the lions range lies in Africa? I've yet to see purple herons in the wild as they are quite rare and shy, but I've seen great egrets on several occasions. Little egrets are more often kept in large groups however and easier to acquire, so they would be a great species for a European aviary. I've known them housed with several species ranging from pigeon-sized (both terrestrial and arboreal species) to cranes.


FBBirds aviary would be much more popular and feasible. Also what's the difference between looking for the "prettiest bird" in your aviary and in his?


I do think that if you want a large European aviary, it might pay of to include vultures. Eurasian black and European griffon are large birds, but in general not dangerous to smaller birds nor people. Red-billed choughs would be a nice flocking species to keep with them. For a waterfowl part, little egrets are a nice base species to keep a group of together with several ducks and possibly some geese. A group of pigeons could also be added.

European pigeon species don’t give a lot of choice. Woodpigeon and Collared Dove are too common to be of interest, Rock Pigeon looks too much like a street pigeon, and Turtledoves, while pretty, are very prone to panic and injure themselves. Hence my choice of Stock Dove, a bird most people have never heard of, giving the opportunity for interesting graphic explaining the difference between it and a Rock/Feral Pigeon. Palm Doves are extremely pretty and would do well, but are only on the fringes of Europe. Certainly the smaller egrets and Squacco Heron could be included.

 

[Mr Gharial]

FBBirds aviary would be much more popular and feasible. Also what's the difference between looking for the "prettiest bird" in your aviary and in his?

I don't know. It's just my personal experience that it's very rewarding to see a sign displaying a large amount of free-roaming birds, picking out one or two, and then doing your best to find them, even going through the region a few times to make sure you didn't miss anything.

Great egrets and purple herons aren't the most common in Europe no, but they are still European species breeding in several European places. Is an Indian lion in that case not good for an Asian area, just because most of the lions range lies in Africa?

I think they're kept in Asian regions mainly because of the namesake, keeping an Asiatic lion in an African region would be concidered strange and confusing. Along with that, you would keep an Asiatic lion in the Asian region because you don't have any other lion options for Asia.
If you want a lion in the Asian region, you can only pick the Asiatic lion. But if you want a heron in the European region you have a larger variety of choices that are more appropriate