My Zoo Concept

[Sphenisciologist]

Just to be clear, you don't need to write a whole care manual for your spec zoo exhibits... if you're going to write all this for every single exhibit in your zoo, that's just a *bit* much to read

I focused on the Museum because compared to the others it’s the most ambitious. I would make some for the other exhibits but those ones will be significantly smaller.

I think what Argus is trying to ask you here is how you plan on keeping them from going in the water if they're on exhibit?

Well, all introductions need to start gradually and slowly, the best way would be for keepers to stand in between the water and the birds or using some sort of physical barrier.

"No more than 15 years" doesn't sound like it's based on average age to me

Here is my source that told me southern rockhoppers average lifespan in the wild:
Rockhopper penguins

It would be nice if you give us exact dimensions for the exhibit as well as the map, honestly giving dimensions would be better than a map imo (having both is best though).

And I am perfectly okay with doing both of those, but it just slight bothered me how Argus said there was no description of what it looks like when I did specify I would make a map. I can make dimensions of the indoor areas if that helps also .

General note: it would be nice if you double-checked and/or fact-checked things before posting all this because as Argus noted, there are quite a few questionable things you had originally included. It also helps to read posts like these through a few times before posting to make sure the way you worded everything makes sense since you seem to have had trouble there as well. Just a note for the future, saves having to fix a bunch of stuff or having to explain yourself after posting it all

I appreciate your insight also.

 

[Ursus]

Just to be clear, you don't need to write a whole care manual for your spec zoo exhibits... if you're going to write all this for every single exhibit in your zoo, that's just a *bit* much to read

I personally think that referencing a certain existing care guide, such as ones published by AZA or EAZA would suffice.
I don't know if OP works in a zoo or not but writing out entire animal care manuals might come across a bit amateurish if not done with the proper research and referencing pre-existing literature or based on first-hand experience/knowledge

 

[Sphenisciologist]

I don't know if OP works in a zoo or not but writing out entire animal care manuals might come across a bit amateurish if not done with the proper research and referencing pre-existing literature or based on first-hand experience/knowledge

I want to clarify I got a lot of knowledge from outside the care manual. I just used it as a format. It is far from the only source I used to explain my facilities care and husbandry of the birds.

 

[Great Argus]

Noted, I’ll switch the exhibit to be slightly warmer to 45 degrees fahrenheit.

Okay so instead of being at the bare minimum for rockhopper you're shunting all the way to the top of the range for Chinstrap? What's wrong with a middle ground of like 38-40F?

Maybe not, but is it necessarily bad?

No - just extra work that is almost certainly unnecessary.

Obviously I don’t think a penguin is going to open a doorknob. It’s just a protocol to ensure they don’t escape.

Out of a locked door? We're talking about penguins, not raccoons or orangutans.

Actually, the AZA says that smaller rocks can be used.

Yes, if they're stuck in the ice. So while not necessarily wrong there's some missing information here.

What does this mean?

Bonding individually with every penguin could prove problematic behaviorally, including for breeding.

I thought that was implied, I suppose not.

Not particularly.

Let me clarify what I meant. Monitored interactions are where chicks can be on exhibit but are ensured that there is no aggression against them, they are not being stress and they don’t go in the water.

Aggression is how they learn their place in the flock, some aggression is necessary as long as they are not being overly harassed or injured.

I think that wild penguins would be a lot more uncomfortable being restrained by a human than a captive bird would, who’s been with them all their life.

Right - as I noted this is a primary difference.

No reason other than the fact that I want to keep the collection small.

Fair I suppose. Though colonial species usually prefer bigger the better.

Several facilities, including Shedd Aquarium, let you touch rockhoppers in their encounters without any real issues.

Fair enough.

Yeah I figured. I didn’t really google their captive status or how they do in mixed exhibits, it was just a last minute speculative thought.

The last Guanays (outside of SA anyways) were at Bronx. The last one died I think two years ago now.

Perhaps you’re reading both!

I am, it's confusing half the time.

I did say in the final note at the end I would post a map today.

Yes, very vaguely. Given you have not alluded to any real size/dimensions (other than a stick figure) in past maps, I feel it was not misplaced.

Thank you for helping me and calling out my mistakes, haha. No hard feelings!

You're welcome.

Just to be clear, you don't need to write a whole care manual for your spec zoo exhibits... if you're going to write all this for every single exhibit in your zoo, that's just a *bit* much to read

I second this, honestly. There is a thing as too much information.

Well, all introductions need to start gradually and slowly, the best way would be for keepers to stand in between the water and the birds or using some sort of physical barrier.

Recognizing that most facilities breed penguins on exhibit and they swim when they are ready? What you're describing would be disruptive to the colony.

And I am perfectly okay with doing both of those, but it just slight bothered me how Argus said there was no description of what it looks like when I did specify I would make a map. I can make dimensions of the indoor areas if that helps also .

Dimensions would be very good - important part of an exhibit.

I personally think that referencing a certain existing care guide, such as ones published by AZA or EAZA would suffice.
I don't know if OP works in a zoo or not but writing out entire animal care manuals might come across a bit amateurish if not done with the proper research and referencing pre-existing literature or based on first-hand experience/knowledge

I agree with this. You don't need to re-write out a whole care guide. It also ended up looking amateurish as he missed some important factors.

I want to clarify I got a lot of knowledge from outside the care manual. I just used it as a format. It is far from the only source I used to explain my facilities care and husbandry of the birds.

Okay - but the only thing close to a husbandry manual in your quoted sources is the story of how penguins failed over and over again at the National Zoo. None of the rest of your sources have anything to do with captive husbandry. You basically used the AZA manual and apparently the failures of National?

 

[Sphenisciologist]

Okay so instead of being at the bare minimum for rockhopper you're shunting all the way to the top of the range for Chinstrap? What's wrong with a middle ground of like 38-40F?

True. The cooler, the better.

Out of a locked door? We're talking about penguins, not raccoons or orangutans.

I suppose. Maybe I was thinking a little too hard on that part.

Bonding individually with every penguin could prove problematic behaviorally, including for breeding.

This is true, if humans are the only source for their entertainment.

Fair I suppose. Though colonial species usually prefer bigger the better.

If these were banded penguins, I would likely put the number up in the 30s since those can be kept outside, but because they’re sub-Antarctic birds, and that’s hard enough to manage for a smaller zoo, considering exhibit costs, 14 is not a bad number and it does exceed the recommended amount.

The last Guanays (outside of SA anyways) were at Bronx. The last one died I think two years ago now.

Gotcha.

Yes, very vaguely. Given you have not alluded to any real size/dimensions (other than a stick figure) in past maps, I feel it was not misplaced.

Fair enough, I suppose exhibit descriptions simply don’t do the trick – precise sizes are needed.

Recognizing that most facilities breed penguins on exhibit and they swim when they are ready? What you're describing would be disruptive to the colony.

That’s what I wanted to do, but it seemed some language barriers made my intentions confusing. Monitored exhibit interactions will allow them to do so when they are ready.

Okay - but the only thing close to a husbandry manual in your quoted sources is the story of how penguins failed over and over again at the National Zoo. None of the rest of your sources have anything to do with captive husbandry. You basically used the AZA manual and apparently the failures of National?

I suppose my research only paid off somewhat – I did do the research, wrote out important information I needed and read the manual but it wasn’t necessary for me to write it all out the way I did.

 

[Hyak_II]

Oh god, so many individual quotes. Anywho. I don't normally reply to fantasy threads, but I'll throw my hat in the ring here.

I've actually worked with Penguins, quite extensively for the matter, so I'll offer some insight as well...

Re: substrate. Your land is good. You could even add areas of river rock year round if you wanted. You'll need it during the breeding season for the chinstraps anyways. For the water just keep it bare cement, and artificial plants. Sand is just a pain in the ass to maintain in a penguin exhibit, and the ingestion chance is reasonable, especially for the chin straps. Plus when you do complete pool drains to pressure wash out the pool, loose substrate is very annoying to deal with. Larger river rock could look nice, but would just function as a poop trap.

Re: vaccines. Most facilities with outdoor birds will vaccinate for west nile and avian malaria. With an indoor exhibit, you shouldn't need to worry about this. Our colony was indoor but we did a large amount of outreach work, sometimes outdoors, and we never vaccinated, and haven't had a single issue in the 35+ years we had birds. Bigger concerns are bumble foot and asper.

As for feeding methods and type. For food, it'll realistically be a rotation of four items, capelin, herring, smelt, and krill. (maybe squid too, but its either the birds love it or hate it, with most hating it, in our colony, like 3 LOVED squid, another 3 or 4 would eat it sometimes, and the rest wouldn't touch it). Feeding daily in the water (especially for scatter feeds with krill) is excellent practice, and should be encouraged (plus its really the only good way to feed krill). Feeding by hand on the water is easy enough to achieve, and enriching for both the birds and staff. Ultimately a lot comes down to facility preference, but I am big on the feeding in the water philosophy, and although slightly more difficult to monitor consumption, its still easy to tell if a bird in showing a change in consumption, they either won't enter the water to feed, or will suddenly become hyper aggressive (ripping fish from other birds, first in last out, etc...)

For air temps, go for some seasonal variation! Chinstraps are prone to experiencing arrested molts, and strong seasonal variation can *potentially* help with that. Personally I would go from the upper range tolerated by the Chin straps (which you will want to do during the molt), to close to the coolest range tolerated by the rockhoppers (which will generally be during your breeding season). Also this is purely word of mouth, but rockhoppers in good condition *can* handle cold temperatures for extended periods of time. As long as there aren't any chicks, or molting/compromised birds, they can handle temps hanging around the 0-1 degree mark quite well. They'll be eating a lot, though!

Interacting with the birds...depends on the facility preference. Some have all of their birds trained on kennel and name rec with daily sessions, others maintain them simply as birds, and have very little involvement beyond yearly physicals. Both work. Even strongly imprinted birds will usually pair off and breed successfully as long as they are left alone in the breeding season. As for public interaction programs, rockies are definitely the better of the two. Tame birds can be engaging and a joy to interact with. Chin Strap can be spicey, but same thing, hand reared birds, if they have an affable nature, should still be fine to work with.

As for the limiting swimming of chicks thing...lots of facilities will actually pull their chicks off exhibit shortly before fledge to accustom them to handfeeding. However when left on exhibit, they will swim when they are ready, which is generally once their stomachs are molted. Even a fully down covered chick can still float and swim, but just generally...don't. Its a biology induced thing to seek out the water, they generally won't do it prematurely. The three Seaworld parks collectively are by far the *most* successful propagator of sub-Antarctic penguins in the world, and the vast majority of their birds are simply fledged out in the colony unless otherwise needed (the exception being kings and emps, but not for the reason of chicks entering the water too early).

Colony number is fine. A *little* small to start off with, but more than enough birds to breed up numbers if so desired.