North American African Elephant Population
- Thread starter Elephant Enthusiast
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To clarify, I don't/didn't work there. Just provided some counter points to the topics being discussed from a different perspective. I admit looking back my wording could have been less confrontational. No program is perfect ,there is always room for improvement. I think one thing we can all agree on is hoping for the best outcome of the animals involved.
Mr.Ivory
Well-Known Member
Well sorry for the rude replay its just that some of us see things differently then others and that's what makes us human nobody is prefect, we are all animal lovers here and we all want the best outcome for Suni, and hopefully we can see past this confrontation
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I wasn’t gonna voice my opinion on the Pittsburgh Zoo elephant situation but I’ve changed my mind so with that said.
I know that as of 5 days ago the calf is still alive at the time I’m writing this. Mother was no where to be found in the video they posted on Instagram. I don’t know why they’re hand raising the calf when they have the mother chained. That is a disgusting practice that should’ve been outlawed a long time ago. Not to mention a calf died in 2017 at the Pittsburgh Zoo and it was being hand raised if I remember correctly.
I’m probably gonna get hate for this but the zoo shouldn’t be allowed to have elephants. From what I’ve seen they’re incapable of managing their herd responsibly and ethically. And I know no wants to think about this being an outcome but I personally don’t think this young calf will survive in the zoos care if it catches EEHV. Yes we know some African Elephants have beaten the virus and lived. Ajabu at the Dallas Zoo caught it earlier this year and lived. Zuberi I think is her name at the Sedgwick County Zoo caught it last year and lived. But that was through aggressive medical treatments, and blood and plasma donations from not only their institution but other AZA accredited zoos. And sometimes that isn’t always enough as we saw with Luca at the Toledo Zoo who caught the virus earlier this year and died.
the Pittsburgh Zoo is not an AZA accredited zoo. I’m not so sure they’ll have the necessary tools and supplies much less the right animal care team to handle that situation if that outcome were ever to come. I don’t mean to be negative but In my opinion that’s the reality we’re dealing with here
I know that as of 5 days ago the calf is still alive at the time I’m writing this. Mother was no where to be found in the video they posted on Instagram. I don’t know why they’re hand raising the calf when they have the mother chained. That is a disgusting practice that should’ve been outlawed a long time ago. Not to mention a calf died in 2017 at the Pittsburgh Zoo and it was being hand raised if I remember correctly.
I’m probably gonna get hate for this but the zoo shouldn’t be allowed to have elephants. From what I’ve seen they’re incapable of managing their herd responsibly and ethically. And I know no wants to think about this being an outcome but I personally don’t think this young calf will survive in the zoos care if it catches EEHV. Yes we know some African Elephants have beaten the virus and lived. Ajabu at the Dallas Zoo caught it earlier this year and lived. Zuberi I think is her name at the Sedgwick County Zoo caught it last year and lived. But that was through aggressive medical treatments, and blood and plasma donations from not only their institution but other AZA accredited zoos. And sometimes that isn’t always enough as we saw with Luca at the Toledo Zoo who caught the virus earlier this year and died.
the Pittsburgh Zoo is not an AZA accredited zoo. I’m not so sure they’ll have the necessary tools and supplies much less the right animal care team to handle that situation if that outcome were ever to come. I don’t mean to be negative but In my opinion that’s the reality we’re dealing with here
And although your point is valid, I would completely disagree. Yes in the last few years they have had some very bad luck with calves but no one can predict whether or not a cow is going to reject their calf. For all, we know that could very well be the situation but we shouldn't judge them or their program based on the fact their cows are crappy moms or don't produce enough milk to sustain the calf. On top of AZA accreditation that doesn't matter either. Insinuating that they wouldn't have the resources to treat a calf with EEHV is insane. Any facility that cares for elephants and knows the risk EEHV poses and takes proper steps to ensure they're prepared should it arise. A facility's accreditation has nothing to do with its preparedness to combat illness within any of its animals. Plus, let us not forget the big reason they're not AZA-accredited is that they did not want to switch to protected contact within their herd at the zoo. I'm sure if you snoop around you will find many other facilities still arent completely protected contact but because it's behind closed doors it's all "okay". But my main point really is that they may not be AZA accredited but that does not mean they don't provide the same care other facilities that are accredited do. Of course, I'm not trying to argue, just wanting to give another perspective.
@NOVAElephantEnthusiast
If you look at a post earlier in this thread taken by @Mai Thai it shows one of Pittsburgh Zoos elephants chained to a post. And they don’t update on the calves condition weekly what so ever like they did at the Oklahoma City Zoo with Kairavi when she caught EEHV. And chaining an elephant last I checked doesn’t occur in AZA Accredited Zoos
If you look at a post earlier in this thread taken by @Mai Thai it shows one of Pittsburgh Zoos elephants chained to a post. And they don’t update on the calves condition weekly what so ever like they did at the Oklahoma City Zoo with Kairavi when she caught EEHV. And chaining an elephant last I checked doesn’t occur in AZA Accredited Zoos
Unfortunately, you would be wrong there. If you read the other posts you would have seen where many of us have stated it does happen at AZA-accredited zoos especially during birth and for some time after should they need to go in with the mom and calf. If you do some research you will find, chaining(often called restraining) does occur in AZA zoo's especially if it's for the safety of the elephant and everyone involved example being medical procedures or emergencies. I have even personally seen it done on several occasions. Just because a facility is open about its practices doesn't mean another is. But also updates are going to come from the zoo's social media team, not from the caregivers.
Why do they do that? That seems wrong to me. And regarding updates the social media team should provide more them on the status of the calf. That chaining practice should be illegal in my opinion. And not having protective contact for their elephants at Pittsburgh is despicable. And personally from what I’ve seen I still have doubts about this new calves survival.
I completely agree that they should be providing more updates, an active social media team is a blessing for zoos and the GP. As for retraining, the modern approach is not as bad as it seems. The elephant's arent restrained all day it's for probably an hour or two at max and even then the longer time frames 9 times out of 10 they're probably sedated so it will bring no discomfort. It's typically used as a last resort or for medical emergencies/procedures (EEHV Treatment at Sedgewick, Birthing at many zoos for first-time moms, and medical procedures where an ERD isn't Practical such as IRAP procedures, tooth extractions, etc) it's all for the safety of the animal, calf, or keepers depending on the situation. And I'm sure many do also have doubts but deep down hope for the calf's survival.
I first of all just want to apologize for being antagonistic earlier in this thread. I should've known better.
I don't wanna wade too far into this debate, but this statement is not something I agree with. Being an AZA institution is not the deciding factor as to whether an institution has the medical capacity to care for there collection, yet there definetly is a correlation. AZA does require a litany of documents and staffing considerations for veterinary care during its inspections. Meanwhile non-AZA institutions are generally self-regulatory bar the USDA's extremely low standards. Yet many do provide great care for there elephants, although some definitely do not.
As well EEHV is taken seriously by zoos inside and outside the AZA, yet the TAG and AZA/key institutions have been the drivers in improved tracking and medical care advancements. Certain unaccredited zoos or circuses or sanctuaries do not provide this level of care though and it is likely that many elephants have suffered or died from EEHV in these same institutions (which do not have necropsy requirements). None of this is to slight Pittsburgh. From what I understand they likely have better veterinary care than 99% of unaccredited institution
Mai Thai
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Here is an update on Claire’s pregnancy: OH BABY! Mama elephant prepares for birth at Omaha Zoo Claire has gained 600 pounds so far and the baby is expected to weigh around 260 pounds when it is born.
I'm so excited for this birth! Hopefully they were perfectly correct in describing Callee as "the best bull we could've gotten for our girls" when he arrived in 2019.
I wonder if there will be another pregnancy announced when Claire gives birth.... This herd should and could grow pretty significantly if Callee is doing his "best!"I'm so excited for this birth! Hopefully they were perfectly correct in describing Callee as "the best bull we could've gotten for our girls" when he arrived in 2019.
Pittsburgh Zoo Treating Elephant Calf For 'Several Serious Medical Conditions,' Place Her In Guarded Condition
The elephant calf born at the Pittsburgh Zoo and PPG aquarium isn’t doing well. Sad but not surprised
The elephant calf born at the Pittsburgh Zoo and PPG aquarium isn’t doing well. Sad but not surprised
Sad. The context clues kind of made many of us assume this, especially the continued use of photographs from the calf's early days.
Having read the article, the “guarded” prognosis may not be too far from “poor”
. It speaks of doing plasma transfusion for the calf and just speaking from experience in the vet field, the use of plasma for the transfusion may have helped a bit but it seems kinda late when done considering the calf had been continuing to decline. I think the zoo may have a difficult decision to make soon and I feel for those who cared for that baby tirelessly…
Elephantelephant
Well-Known Member
Oh no. Although we all assumed it. There's something wrong with the calf from the beginning. I'm not sure if it's a calf, mother or zoo fault. But even though the zoo claimed to be completely healthy and strong, we all saw that something was wrong. Now I just hope he survives.
Mr.Ivory
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Butch is now at Wildlife Safari NEW ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IN WINSTON - KQEN News Radio
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