Nile Hippo Expert
Well-Known Member
For Dallas Zoo, Mlilo could also be pregnant, as back in April they shared that her and her son Okubili were on exhibit and sharing space together with Tendaji.
North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation
- Thread starter The Horse Boy
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Frankie_number_1_fan
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I completly misread the post above yours! My mistake
Frankie_number_1_fan
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My guess would be they may be waiting with Priya. While a calf sooner than later would be nice, it isn't as urgent that she conceive compared to her sister. I'm not privy to any information regarding their plans, but I'm almost positive the only reason Jade and presumably Maliha (successful or not) were AI'd is to ensure they wouldn't pass the window for their first calf before Samudra figured out the ropes.
The Horse Boy
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It would be very nice if they still planned for Samdrua to be the bull that'll replace Raja. Like y'all said all the breeding aged cows at stl are raja daughters and I don't think samdrua is related to any of them. Samadrua looks to have been brought up in a good breeding herd environment and they brought Samson over to his natal facility to breed their cows and show him the ropes before he could leave to another breeding facility.
Samudra will still be arriving to St. Louis once Raja departs. This is confirmed and no plans have changed since then.
Also for Samudra's breeding capabilities, I don't think there will be issues of a "learning period" for him. He has, for quite some time, been mounting and breeding the cows at Oregon, and quite frankly I suspect the only reason why he doesn't have any offspring via natural breeding yet is because the only viable cow at Oregon is his mother. I have no doubt that, should St Louis allow, Samudra will successfully breed any of their 3 young cows in short order. He is socially savvy and of an affable nature, of an age and size where he will be able to successfully dominate the cows, and has grown up in a proper herd environment along with the guidance of two excellent bulls (Tusko and Samson).
Also for Samudra's breeding capabilities, I don't think there will be issues of a "learning period" for him. He has, for quite some time, been mounting and breeding the cows at Oregon, and quite frankly I suspect the only reason why he doesn't have any offspring via natural breeding yet is because the only viable cow at Oregon is his mother. I have no doubt that, should St Louis allow, Samudra will successfully breed any of their 3 young cows in short order. He is socially savvy and of an affable nature, of an age and size where he will be able to successfully dominate the cows, and has grown up in a proper herd environment along with the guidance of two excellent bulls (Tusko and Samson).
The Horse Boy
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I notice that at the Dallas zoo, Tendaji, their only mature bull, mostly spends his time in the smaller tembo udango yard with the fig tress, but okubili and all the cows spend theirs in the much larger space in the south habitat. But does that mean the entire elephant facility including the just mentioned large south yard and the two private yards at back are bull proof, or just the udango and barn?
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The Horse Boy
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I hope tamani has successfully been able learn how to breed zuri at Kansas City as these two are not much older/younger than each other afaik. And they have publicity expressed interest in starting a breeding program since tamani came from Birmingham in 2015. The only reason they didn't start it til the hogle duo came last year is cuz all the other cows there were much older than him and already past their prime.
If there is a mature bull you can assume all fencing and facilities are bull proof. Pretty much all of the elephant facilities can hold a bull.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I could be wrong but on my visit last month I discussed it with the keepers and a few of them said it originally wasn't strong enough to hold bulls when it opened in 2010 as they held a herd of post reproductive cows. However, one keeper did say they reinforced the barriers as the young swazi herd including tendaji himself came in 2016. But I'm pretty sure they always had the physical space for one.
I think it's not really a requirement for every modern elephant enclosure have a bull present, but more so have the capability for it. It's a safe speculation that much of the older enclosures were not quite set up for males for that matter.
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Maybe old enclosures, certainly. The bulls require taller and stouter fencing. From what I have seen from newer enclosures, the fencing are definitely that.
The Horse Boy
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So because the dallas one is nearly 15 years old now, I guess it really had the space and strength to house bulls to begin with. Almost all of the ones built in the 2000's, 2010's, to now do from the looks of them.
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The Horse Boy
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Does the San Francisco zoo have the space for a world class elephant habitat? They haven't housed them in nearly 20 years now.
Nile Hippo Expert
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Even if they do, it's not going to happen. The zoo is in a very troubled state right now and acquiring elephants would only make it 10,000 times worse than it already is.
The Horse Boy
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I know it's not as well regarded as many other American zoos of it's type. They seem to have so many outdated enclosures that need a significant renovation. The city government had a strict law any new elephant enclosures being built there must be 15 acres and over. In my opinion it's absurd as much of the newer lovely elephant enclosures range from about 2 3 4 or 5 acres. They have about 100 acres of space, so I'm sure if they were to lift that law, they could build a houston birmingham or dallas level habitat.
The zoo's current troubled state aside, they really don't have space for such an endeavor unless they take out a bunch of other things. Also I highly doubt that law is getting repealed any time soon. San Francisco is not a zoo I would even entertain the thought of returning to elephants.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
If oakland decides to keep elephants alongside dramatic renovations to their habitat sometime after Osh's departure to TES, then it's a given if bay area residents still want to see elephants. Oakland is immediately on the other side of the bay bridge from SF, making it a quick and easy drive, not counting all the recurring traffic there. Sedgwick just announced that their young male titan is moving to another zoo housing Africans this spring, so maybe that could be an option for him with either older mentor and younger peer bulls as sparring buddies or young cows to mate with, if construction time permits. But it's just my hypothesis.
I concur that the San Francisco zoo hasn't had a lot of good publicity over the past 20 or so years.
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As much as I'd like San Fran to get elephants, I'd rather the promise of pachyderms only comes with a Paris/Atlanta style reboot.
Maybe then someone could sweet talk them in repealing that law but that's a big if. That being said, I'd do a reboot anyway as, with a few exceptions, the whole zoo is barely held together with toothpicks and marshmallows.
Maybe then someone could sweet talk them in repealing that law but that's a big if. That being said, I'd do a reboot anyway as, with a few exceptions, the whole zoo is barely held together with toothpicks and marshmallows.
Oakland's exhibit really isn't bad, companionship was the issue that ultimately led to them sending out Osh I believe. There was no available elephants to send apparently.
The bad publicity is not the only reason I say SF is not on the table for elephants.
The Horse Boy
Well-Known Member
I think the enclosure already has the perfect ability to manage either a breeding family group or bachelor group. The only tweaks I think that would have to made there would by altering the outfoor fencing with much taller sturdier and vertical cylindrical or I-beam steel posts along with thick electric wire that many elephant enclosures use today, and build a much bigger barn with spacious stalls having heated rubber/sand substrate found in newer elephant barns.
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