North American Asian and African Elephant Populations 2025: Discussion and Speculation

The Horse Boy said:
Wouldn't Caldwell be more likely to commit to elephants more than Cameron Park? They're both smaller city zoos and their enclosures are about the same size. The barn space at Tyler seems much bigger tho.
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For what it’s worth Caldwell used to have a small breeding group with Chisco (spelling?) as a breeding bull. It has ceased of course
 
ZCChip said:
if it


For what it’s worth Caldwell used to have a small breeding group with Chisco (spelling?) as a breeding bull. It has ceased of course
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Caldwell now has a small bachelor pair alongside 1 elder cows going on 50. If they house young bull groups, they definitely committed to elephant housing for the future. And there will be young bulls available from Omaha and Sedgwick with their current birth boom, to replace Mac or Emanti when the time comes for them to move to breeding herds.
 
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The Horse Boy said:
Caldwell now has a small bachelor pair alongside 1 elder cows going on 50. If they house young bull groups, they definitely committed to elephant housing for the future. And there will be young bulls available from Omaha and Sedgwick with their current birth boom, to replace Mac or Emanti when the time comes for them to move to breeding herds.
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yes they do. The cow is an odd animal out. I wonder why they wouldn’t shift her to Waco? Or TES. An older cow would have a tough time with two young rambunctious bulls.

Or they could move both cows to TES. Mabu and Callee have plenty sons that will need a place to go.
 
ZCChip said:
yes they do. The cow is an odd animal out. I wonder why they wouldn’t shift her to Waco? Or TES. An older cow would have a tough time with two young rambunctious bulls.

Or they could move both cows to TES. Mabu and Callee have plenty sons that will need a place to go.
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It certainly makes more sense to move Tonya to TES than even Cameron Park, as I think the lone cow there does just fine companionless. I feel Caldwell should also bring in a mature mentor bull like Ajani or Msholo to replace their single cow in case she gets put off by the young bulls antics.
 
The Horse Boy said:
Caldwell now has a small bachelor pair alongside 1 elder cows going on 50. If they house young bull groups, they definitely committed to elephant housing for the future. And there will be young bulls available from Omaha and Sedgwick with their current birth boom, to replace Mac or Emanti when the time comes for them to move to breeding herds.
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I would be shocked if Cadwell phased out. They're pretty well established as a bachelor facility and would likely be able to take on 1-2 more bulls once their lone cow passes away or is transferred out. They may even be able to take on another one now (but there isn't a current need to do so).
I'm assuming they're retaining her to keep the 3 elephant ratio that the AZA wants. In probably less than 5 years or so there will be an oppertunity for another bull to come there, whoever that may be. And if she is still alive during that time then she will likely be sent off to TES.

Something to note re Cameron Park as well, it is entirely possible that their staff have been told to keep plans vague even when little possibility exists of them building a new complex. I hate to be a downer here as another holder retaining would be very ideal, but short of that forested area I just can't see where or how they would do it. Many zoos say their plans regarding elephants are ""up in the air"" even when it's decently obvious that they will phase out permanently (Louisville, Phoenix, etc).
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I'm assuming they're retaining her to keep the 3 elephant ratio that the AZA wants. In probably less than 5 years or so there will be an oppertunity for another bull to come there, whoever that may be. And if she is still alive during that time then she will likely be sent off to TES.
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It goes without saying that by around the 5 years or so timeline you noted the amount of new young bulls on demand will be plentiful re the current African birth explosion at Omaha and Sedgwick. These 2 zoos as well as Okubili (given his natal facility is only 100 miles away) are the ones I can see offloading new adolescent bulls to Tyler one their current 2 move to breeding holders. There's also Umzula-Zuli at SDSP who will probably need to leave his natal herd about 2 or more years from now
 
ZCChip said:
From @nczoofan’s post I would think Cameron Park are planning to phase out. Caldwell took in two bulls so that’s a sign of commitment.
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Another option could be for cameron park to greatly expand and modernize the barn and reinforce the outdoor fencing for a small bachelor herd. CP would honestly be easier to manage small bachelors than multigenerational herds in my eyes wether they keep the current enclosure or move it to that patch of woodland if they're allowed to build on it.
 
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Frankie_number_1_fan said:
Many zoos say their plans regarding elephants are ""up in the air"" even when it's decently obvious that they will phase out permanently (Louisville, Phoenix, etc).
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The only zoos I can see bringing back elephants after phase out without considerable hurdles could be Knoxville, Nashville, Riverbanks, Oakland, and even Phoenix since that zoo has lots of unused land enveloping the current property.
 

I don't know which elephant is which in these videos, but at least one of the females shown at SDZSP has some noticeable mammary development going on. I would assume the last set born in 2018 are done nursing, and unless this is just retention in appearance from the past - it may be of note.
 
HawkAlot said:

I don't know which elephant is which in these videos, but at least one of the females shown at SDZSP has some noticeable mammary development going on. I would assume the last set born in 2018 are done nursing, and unless this is just retention in appearance from the past - it may be of note.
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I'm almost certian multiple females there are pregnant. If I had to guess I would say Khosi, Phakamile, Qinisa and perhaps even Umngani.
 
The Horse Boy said:
The only zoos I can see bringing back elephants after phase out without considerable hurdles could be Knoxville, Nashville, Riverbanks, Oakland, and even Phoenix since that zoo has lots of unused land enveloping the current property.
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Nobody should be getting their hopes up about the Oakland Zoo anytime soon. There is zero interest from people I know who work there that have told me the zoo has no intention of bringing back elephants at this time.
 
Frankie_number_1_fan said:
I'm almost certian multiple females there are pregnant. If I had to guess I would say Khosi, Phakamile, Qinisa and perhaps even Umngani.
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Fingers crossed! It does line up well given Musi's departure date with the info that the cows at said undisclosed location were due by early 2026 at the latest, the info that it was a first time father who got multiple females pregnant naturally, and the opinion that Musi will be their breeding bull going forward... meanwhile he isn't even there. I know facilities do weird stuff all the time, but in a sensible world - why would you remove a bull from a facility with females who desperately need to have their first calves if they aren't currently pregnant... especially if you plan to being said bull back in the future. If it didn't work the first time around, there'd be little sense in having him return as someone to rely on.
 
HawkAlot said:
Fingers crossed! It does line up well given Musi's departure date with the info that the cows at said undisclosed location were due by early 2026 at the latest, the info that it was a first time father who got multiple females pregnant naturally, and the opinion that Musi will be their breeding bull going forward... meanwhile he isn't even there. I know facilities do weird stuff all the time, but in a sensible world - why would you remove a bull from a facility with females who desperately need to have their first calves if they aren't currently pregnant... especially if you plan to being said bull back in the future. If it didn't work the first time around, there'd be little sense in having him return as someone to rely on.
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the video mentioned Vus Musi is possibly returning to the San Diego Zoo Safari Park once their new African Elephant exhibit is completed.
 
John Marchwick said:
the video mentioned Vus Musi is possibly returning to the San Diego Zoo Safari Park once their new African Elephant exhibit is completed.
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Yes, that's what I'm referencing. Along with chatter I've heard here. If he wasn't successful getting anyone pregnant the last time, I can't really see why they'd have him back as the bull to rely on another time around. Furthermore, his move in the first place softly indicates to me that they're not currently in dire need of a bull. And there'd only really be one reason for that.
 
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